Not sure if this is of any help at all, but I’ve just been speaking to the creator of the Black Vine directly, and he said he’s been reading and following this thread lol, he said this:
I’ve read the comments on the ELR forum and good to se people trying to create there own version of The Black Vine although most of my recipes have flavourings in that most wouldn’t think to use, sometimes multiple flavours are used just to make one flavour so it’s a case of play by taste, like music, some notes sound the same but not always the same chord played
The Black Vine is definitely one of our most popular flavours and I created at the time just to play around with various blackcurrant flavours that were sitting on a shelf and wanted to create a flavour using blackcurrant without cooling agents. The Black Vine is actually 1 of 2 flavours that I created and uses the original first mix/recipe, normally all of my flavours go through multiple versions prior to final mix but this was one that I guess I just got right first time round and almost stayed on a shelf never too be released until a friend of mine who had a vape shop wanted something that other shops around him didn’t have and so asked if I had anything new. At the time I was busy working on Crimson Seed (Or a version of it) and so told him sorry I had nothing apart from a few flavours sitting on a shelf, I sent them to him and he said he loved the blackcurrant one which was at the time was labeled ‘Black Vine’ and said as long as he promoted it as I didn’t have time he could sell it exclusively in his shop, he did and after a few reviews word got about and he was selling out faster than I could supply him so decided to scrap other flavours and bring it into my main line and that’s how The Black Vine started off.
Didn’t want to pry by asking what he uses or ask to elaborate further hope this helps somewhat. It’s cool that he still comes on here though!
Wow!! That’s really helpful “used multiple flavours to create one flavour” and “used flavours that others wouldn’t consider to use.” that’s why it’s been difficult to get right. I’m thinking the blackcurrant is possibly 2 flavours but we have it so close now. Thanks for doing this and thanks too the creator of black vine his juice is very cleverly done and intriguing. It’s really well balanced if you add a touch too much of 1 flavour it throws it off.
I actually thought “I’m going to e mail him the recipe” and say “please correct for us” but it’s very cheeky and I wouldn’t do it.
Sounds like he’s a musician as well so I know exactly what he’s saying.
Yeah I thought it might help a little, obviously being that I haven’t even tasted the OG liquid quite yet (should be delivered tomorrow) I can’t give complete or accurate help on the flavour profile…
But I think given his response (and the nature of the liquids description) we can extrapolate that he is more than likely referring to the blackcurrant - being that it’s the main flavour, not just being a single flavour as expected; like Cap Blackcurrant, and infact the blackcurrant itself coming from a mixture of unexpected flavours that happen to come together and make a beautiful light blackcurrant flavour which fits well in this recipe.
So if that’s the case I think it may be worth focusing on just solely making the blackcurrant flavour by it’s lonesome somehow with some unexpected ingredients and once that feels about 90% the same, integrating all your other findings around that new discovery with slight variation and tweaks.
Looking forward to try this OG liquid though! I also have ordered their “Raspberry Milk” hoping it was just as good, because I love vanilla, cream and raspberries.
I look forward to you trying the OG and possibly trying our clone you will be surprised how close they are.
It’s a case of playing the same chord but further up the fretboard (an octave higher) That means you can achieve the same thing by using a similar ingredient because of the way all the flavours interact.
I think the whole Rochford project collection will be really good because mixed by the same person.
Yeah I can’t see any commercial liquid responding to the request at all unfortunately, since their recipe being online could be used or infringed by competitors, but I think given his response he loves that people are still trying to remake it themselves & seems even happy to help in that regard, but I wouldn’t expect exact ingredients.
“I created at the time just to play around with various blackcurrant flavours that were sitting on a shelf and wanted to create a flavour using blackcurrant without cooling agents.”
I think what we can take from this though is that it could potentially either be a mix of blackcurrant flavours/ingredients that lack cooling agents in them (instead of it being just a single, one dimensional blackcurrant, elevating it by using multiple - that all lack cooling agents?
Either that, or “most of my recipes have flavourings in that most wouldn’t think to use, sometimes multiple flavours are used just to make one flavour” is referring to seemingly completely unrelated flavours that happen to come together well and create a light yet vibrant blackcurrant flavour profile.
Yeah I’m excited, can’t wait. It’ll be my first clone to ever try, so I’m hoping my complete inexperience can give a different point of view helping this recipe get even closer.
I think having fresh tastebuds try both would be beneficial regardless of experience anyway and I’m excited to give both a try side by side.
Not sure if this matters but just incase, I’ll disclose it:
I’ll be mixing at 20mg/ml strength & 50/50 by using 72mg 100% VG.
I’ve been following your tread about harsh peppery taste. If the same thing happens when mixing black vine (don’t think it will) then reduce nicotine. Nichub nicotine is really good quality and can often taste strong than you expect. But you should be ok at 20Mg/ml.
Alright no worries mate thanks. I haven’t had much issues with this salt nic in a handful of other recipes I’ve tried tbh, I think the culprit (at least for me) is one of the flavours I put in it, like VBIC, but I do have yet to solo flavour test, so can’t rule it out as a possibility.
I also bought 50/50 nic salt too from myeliquidsupplies.com . It came as a brown/orange colour - which I do not like, and has worried me since buying it, although they informed me:
“As stated on the product page per se, the colour is expected. You’re dealing with acids, so they react and give a colour - it’s not oxidation. The colour is correct. Nicotine Salts are such solutions that vary between clear, yellow, orange and brownish. It is not possible to control the tints with Salts. It is hardly ever clear, especially in higher PG it will always be orange/brown.”
But both of the two 1L bottles that I got from nic hub is actually clear, so I always just go with that.
Most definitely , either way you dont require any experience at all to be able to tell someone what you are tasting.
& it will 100% help having some fresh tastebuds on the case, i have vaped that much of this stuff over the past few months its gotta be having some effect on my palate? I mean i have almost used all the 30ml bottle of cap blackcurrant already,lol.
& i have also explored a lot of other variations that i havent posted publicly for one reason or another, but heres where im at now -
Just to keep the thread updated.
& in regards to jay following the thread, thats great to hear & that he responded too, i bet hes watching thinking “damn they are pretty close”,lol. But for him to respond so positively just shows the kinda guy he really is👍.
Honestly i dont think theres any “special” kind or brand of ingredient in there personally? I think hes just throwing more ideas in there to fuck with us a bit . it really is close though & i would wager we already have most(if not all) of the ingredients pretty much spot on? I think it could either just be down to “better” balancing or maybe a different brand of an ingredient we are already using? because it feels right “taste” wise but something isnt lining up “layer” wise & to me it feels like its the FA passion that isnt quite lining up where it should? Its hard to say for sure without testing because changing another ingredient (like the dragonfruit) could also adjust the passion & where/how it sits in the recipe.
I think we definitely have the main profile correct (maybe minor % tweaks but i mean ingredients wise & where they sit in the recipe), the part thats slightly different is just the one of the accents & like i said, altering any single one of the 3 fruits (dragon/jack/passion) could be the answer we’re looking for?
I am still testing though, got loads to get through,lol.
You have “Fuji” lower in above recipe. So we can’t decide between 1% and 1.5% so I think 1.25% “Fuji” would be perfect. It adds a touch more tartness and of course flavour.
So based on this, the TFA Blackberry is in it? This doesn’t make sense because it’s clearly not the original recipe @RicklePick-Eddie1z found we started with.
Thats interesting? I wonder if hes actually referring to the original recipe i found a while back? Funny i cant find that anywhere now too? I have tried asking ai many times to try to find it again & came up empty, i went all through my browser history too & couldnt find anything, not even the searches that lead to it?
When i have some more bottles free ill make another version up with it in there just to see what its like with the rest of the recipe now?
As much as I would like this to be helpful, this is just some insight on what he wanted to create. There are zero Blackcurrant flavors we considered but had cooling agents in them.
Well, we know this wasn’t a one and done recipe since you found that original with the same name that may be a base of it but not the final recipe. Maybe his revisit to it “with various blackcurrant flavours that were sitting on a shelf” was the one and done.
, either way you dont require any experience at all to be able to tell someone what you are tasting.
. it really is close though & i would wager we already have most(if not all) of the ingredients pretty much spot on? I think it could either just be down to “better” balancing or maybe a different brand of an ingredient we are already using? because it feels right “taste” wise but something isnt lining up “layer” wise & to me it feels like its the FA passion that isnt quite lining up where it should? Its hard to say for sure without testing because changing another ingredient (like the dragonfruit) could also adjust the passion & where/how it sits in the recipe.
