Tobacco Extraction Using Heated Ethanol

[d_fabes]

Well, that was a huge fail.

I usually put something like a plastic fork, under the edge of the crock pot lid, to control the temperature, and keep it at 150 or so. I forgot the fork.

When I checked it this morning, the water was doing a low boil, and the Everclear had all evaporated from the Ball jars. That made them float off the bottom of the crock pot and lean to one side. When I lifted the lid, one fell over and took on a bunch of water. Two others just have damp tobacco in them, and one has just a bit of Everclear left in it.

[d_fabes]

In the name of experimentation, I decided to re-cover the tobacco with PG, in the three jars that didn’t take on water, and put it back in the crock pot (with fork under the lid). What the hell, I’m in this deep. Whats a little PG and a few coffee filters?

The Everclear must have extracted something that was just absorbed back into the tobacco. When I added the PG and gave it a little stir, the PG went pretty dark, almost instantly.

If nothing else, it will be information gathered, and a lesson learned. Maybe that was the missing step to perfection!

As the saying goes, when dealt lemons, make lemonade. Lets see what happens.

[Kinnikinnick]

@d_fabes

In the name of experimentation,

That’s what it’s all about! Life is pretty much…live and learn! I remember that when my Mom said “you don’t ever want to put your hand on a stove eye honey!”

…I did it anyway! =:confounded:

Keep calm and NET ON !

[d_fabes]

Finished my 1.5 micron vacuum filtering, on my latest experiment. I ended up with about 225 ml of very dark NET.

I sampled it in a dripper, but the NET itself was just too potent, and the dripper, as usual, was too strong as well. I just don’t get along well with drippers. I haven’t met one yet, that wasn’t too strong for me.

I decided to try the NET like a flavoring. I made a little 3 ml mix, with my normal base. 60V / 40P, .4 nic. I added 2.5 % Hangsen No 5, and 2.5% NET. I chose No 5 because it’s not a potent flavor. Good but not overpowering.

It’s a pretty darn good vape. I dry burned the coil, and put in fresh cotton, so I’ll be able to see how gunky the coil is, when I’m finished.

Over all I’m optimistic, considering how this batch started off on the wrong foot. Considering it’s only a week old, it should get even better. I’m actually kind of excited, that I produced something that’s almost strong enough to hold it’s own with an actual flavoring, when used in equal amounts. The flavor of the NET is right there, with the Hangsen, in the mix. You can definitely tell it’s there.

That brings my total NET stash up to about 800 ml or so.

This fail turned into a win, in my book. I’m looking forward to seeing how it turns out in a couple of months.

[Kinnikinnick]

Doing a bit of an experiment with another extraction. Deciding to go hybrid with a PGA hot/cold maceration this go round.

.5g of a locally mixed pipe blend tobacco (Virginia, Latakia & Perique) topped with 100ml of PGA heated to 150 degrees; stirred slightly to moisten tobacco and off to the cool steep closet for a month. 9/2/16…see ya then!

[Kinnikinnick]

Tossing this over here since it reminded me of the above PGA extraction which I needed to comment upon after the filter process:

Tobacco Recipes

We all live and learn! I’ve made many goofs myself. For me, the most successful way of a PGA maceration to start off is, heating the PGA to 150 degrees, topping the tobacco with the warm PGA and then sending it off to the steep closet for a month. A slight roll of the tobacco in the jar every week to notice color changes is about all the agitation I provide during the process. The rest of the filtering process is a bit of a drag, but boy, it provides a clean extract. Very muc…

I did two versions of the local Latakia, Virginia and Perique Blend; one PGA and one PG. The PGA version (even though it’s more of a pain in the butt to filter) came out much cleaner, crisp and vibrant. This outcome won’t keep me from doing it the lazy man’s way (Quick PG method), but perhaps for those higher price tobaccos which deserve time and care, I’ll spring for the PGA hybrid hot start/cold steep method.

[Weedhunter]

Hiho,

tobacco leaves arrived and waiting for beeing extracted. BUT alcohol with 96,9% is expensive, because there is a high tax on. Can i use 2-Propanol for the extraction? If not, i have to swallow this toad. I think the result with alcohol is better than with PG. More you get out from the leaves.

Just want to start this journey into NET and like to choose the best solution.

over&out
Weedhunter

[Kinnikinnick]

@Weedhunter

Can i use 2-Propanol for the extraction?

Stick with ethyl alcohol… 151 proof of something, if you don’t want to purchase a higher proof.

Read a toxicology report on 2-propanol/
isopropyl alcohol… it needs to stay in the medicine chest.

I have had good success with 151 PGA, despite what others might say. I just wrapped up a 6 month maceration process of War Horse Green:

150 ml of 151 EA solvent was used during the maceration process, then filtered and reduced down to 30ml worth of usable extract. This turned out to be one of the best EA extraction’s I’ve done so far; very pleased.

[vaug]

Just learned that I do not have access to 190 proof Pure Grain Alcohol (EverClear) in my state, so bought the 151 proof. (Man, this stuff is not cheap)
Question: Is there something that you do differently in the process to adjust for the lower alcohol / greater water content in the 151 proof?

[Weedhunter]

Does PGA mean pure grain alcohol?

151 Proof is 75,5% Vol. -> 24,5 % Vol. water.

My research says, if you want to extract plants you need water too. The water let the plant parts swell up. Now the alcohol can solve better. That explain your good results.

My thoughts about using high proof alcohol was about less water in the endproduct.

over&out
Weedhunter

[Kinnikinnick]

@vaug

Question: Is there something that you do differently in the process to adjust for the lower alcohol / greater water content in the 151 proof?

Nope…

Some folks get bent because the H2O in the 151 PGA might pull out a bit more of the natural dextrose in the tobacco, causing the coil to gunk a bit faster and making the extract a bit sweet. It doesn’t bother me that much, since I perform a wick change and coil burn on a daily basis anyway and I don’t mind a little sweetness with my NET vapes.

There are also those that say an extraction with anything less than a 190 or 200 proof PGA is garbage… my opinion is, that is not true. In short… to each their own.

If folks want to spend their money on expensive proof EA or go through the process of using 3A molecular sieve beads to rid the EA of H2O… they can knock themselves out. Again… to each their own. I’ll go the cheap route… I’m easy.

@Weedhunter

Does PGA mean pure grain alcohol?

Yes… pure grain alcohol; sometimes you will see me and others refer to it as EA (ethyl alcohol) or Ethanol.

[Sorin2]

So grateful to you for sharing all these secrets. I’ll try both methods soon.
So far, I’ve only done the heating (about 3 times) + filtering (also 3 times) method. And, I’ve been quite happy with the results (better than everything I got from vendors). In the beginning, the eliquid tastes more like green, unburned tobacco, but it gets better after some time. I mostly use PG.
I guess it’s essential for me to follow your advice and continue with freezing. I will. Many thanks again.
Also, I don’t think I can get pure alcohol here in Thailand. I can only use Vodka, Rum, Whiskey. What do you think?
Finally, anything new in the extraction experiment?

[Goblyn]

Hi everyone ,this is my first post!This site is really good ,I find it easy to navigate .
I m just beginning diy mixing .
Does anyone have recommendations for the type of ethanol to use for NET ?I am considering giving it a go ,I live in New Zealand so should be able to get Tobacco leaf and ethanol.The reason I ask is I dont want to use any that has benzene or anything added .There is a good guide on Reddit by Denis Bouchard as well .

[Kinnikinnick]

@Goblyn

recommendations for the type of ethanol to use for NET ?

A pure grain alcohol (PGA) from your local liquor store should be fine to use. I’ve used the 151 proof “Everclear” brand of PGA for extractions with great success. With using a lower proof PGA, your NET will benefit from performing an evaporation process at some point, prior to or after filtering, to rid the extraction of as much H2O as possible; reduces the snap, crackle and pop factor in vaping the end product. Good luck in your endeavor!

[Goblyn]

hey so this is an e mail I got

Ethyl Alcohol Reply
Southern Grain Spirits spirits@southerngrainspirits.co.nz
Sun 10/06, 10:26 p.m.
You
Hi

Thank you for your email enquiry.

The price for a “Duty Paid” litre bottle of 96.4% Ethyl Alcohol
including freight and GST is $116.15.
The price for a “Duty Paid” litre bottle of 70% Ethyl Alcohol including
freight and GST is $87.40.

Denatured alcohol (with Methanol - Not Potable) is available at $15.00
per litre plus freight and GST.
If you have a NZ Customs Permit or are a Customs Controlled Area (CCA)
the “Duty Your Care” prices are attached.

Please do not hesitate to ring or email us if you have any questions.

$116 NZD is approx $78 USD ,so its quite a bit .

[CAAB]

Hi, I am wondering if anyone has developed a method of PGA extraction they are satisfied with? I have 5 PGA soaked tobaccos ready for heating for 12 hours at 160 degrees F. But am wondering if I should cold macerate them for 6 months instead?

I am also thinking of using dry ice to reduce the temperature even further for the final filtration. I discovered the strategy when stumbling upon a technique people use for cannabis extraction. The technique is called QWET. Which is really along similar lines. Tobacco and cannabis are plants, and you don’t want chlorophyl, waxes, oils, and other such things in the flavor extract.

[Kinnikinnick]

@CAAB

wondering if anyone has developed a method of PGA extraction they are satisfied with?

I kinda have. Mine isn’t one which uses 100% EA (ethyl alcohol) in the maceration. I was never really happy with how much extract was left remaining after the reduction/filter process. Plus, it was more of a longer, drawn out process than my usual PG macerations which are rather quick and simple. So, I do a “hybrid” mix of PG/EA on the leaf during maceration; usually a half and half kinda thing, heat the maceration at 125*F for 8 hours, cool steep for a couple of months, evap the EA off for an hour over warm water, filter it down to 2.5um, bottle it, and mix it.

@CAAB

wondering if I should cold macerate them for 6 months instead?

Well, you could split each maceration in half and do a little experiment. The purpose of warming the maceration is to get a bolder flavor out of the leaf. Whereas, cold macerations return a lighter, gentler outcome. I like bold.

@CAAB

thinking of using dry ice to reduce the temperature even further for the final filtration.

You might want to be ready to skim the ice off the top of the extract during that process. If your using 191 EA, it may not be that bad… but, there’s some H2O in that 151 EA which will probably freeze when dry ice is introduced to the process. This is pure speculation, mind you… I’ve never produced any NET extract using dry ice. However, I have read of individuals rending H2O from EA using dry ice.

@CAAB

you don’t want chlorophyl, waxes, oils, and other such things in the flavor extract.

I’m pretty happy with not having copious amounts of tar in my NET vape; I can overlook those other little devils.

[CAAB]

Thanks Kinnikinnick for the fast reply!

@Kinnikinnick

I was never really happy with how much extract was left remaining after the reduction/filter process.

I too am concerned about how much will be left after reduction. I plan on doing my reduction prior to freeze filtering. The logic to this is that the oils and resins become super saturated when the ethanol is evaporated, so the freeze filtering becomes even more effective. This method is not recommended on smaller extractions, but I thought, hey, why not? All in the name of progress.

I am starting my tests with approx 120ml 190 proof PGA in 4oz canning jars. I am hoping that after tobacco removal, reduction, and filtration, to end up with between 10 - 25 ml extract, but have no way of knowing yet.

I will use a potato ricer to press the ethanol out of the tobacco. The metal strainer won’t absorb liquid, so I won’t lose much there. Just what doesn’t come out of the leaves. I will then evaporate the extract by 70%, and place in a freezer.

After winterizing in the freezer for 3 days, I will transfer the extract and a filter funnel to a cooler with dry ice and let it all cool further for about an hour. Then I will perform another filtration. I will be using a Busy Liz canning filter I purchased off eBay. It allows the install of a filter at the bottom. I will cut a coffee filter to size and pre-wet with 190 proof PGA to minimize filter loss. Since the filter will be small, I won’t lose as much from absorption.

I may place some dry ice granules directly on the filter paper to assist in filtration, if I can source food-grade dry ice. The idea is that the ethanol will pass through the dry ice but will capture some of the oils/resins before they clog the filter. This is really just conjecture at this point. The dry ice may sublimate before it captures anything. But at least it will look very science-like with fog and all.

I also sourced some Whatman Grade 5 filters. I plan on using them in the final filtration, again, fitting them in the Busy Liz canning funnel, and pre-wetting them to minimize losses. If the dry ice granule ‘pre-filter’ works very well, I may be able to skip the coffee filter, and just go straight to the 2.5 micron filter.

@Kinnikinnick

I do a “hybrid” mix of PG/EA on the leaf during maceration; usually a half and half kinda thing, heat the maceration at 125*F for 8 hours, cool steep for a couple of months, evap the EA off for an hour over warm water, filter it down to 2.5um, bottle it, and mix it.

I contemplated something similar, using VG/PGA. My concern was that the 5% water from the 190 proof PGA would be absorbed by the VG and difficult to evaporate off. Do you get a lot of popping from the water content in your hybrid mix? Or is it low enough to not matter?

@Kinnikinnick

Well, you could split each maceration in half and do a little experiment. The purpose of warming the maceration is to get a bolder flavor out of the leaf. Whereas, cold macerations return a lighter, gentler outcome. I like bold.

I like bold as well. I think I’ll just start with the heated extraction, see how that works. If I’m not happy, I’ll try the 6 month cold soak.

Starting the clock today, I will begin heating my 190 proof PGA extractions. Will post the results when all is said and done. I have a spectrum of pipe tobaccos and one cigar chopped up. I am interested in the cigar because I read that it’s difficult to translate the flavors over to PGA. Guess we’ll find out!

[Kinnikinnick]

Kudos! It sounds like you have done a gosh plenty research, have your process figured out, and are ready to to dive into your project head first! Good for you. Go Man!

@CAAB

But at least it will look very science-like with fog and all.

… heck yeah!

- YouTube

@CAAB

Do you get a lot of popping from the water content in your hybrid mix? Or is it low enough to not matter?

The hydroscopic issues haven’t been a noticeable issue with my extractions… and I don’t fret over it too much anyway. @50YearsOfCigars will tell you, it’s pretty much impossible for us to keep H2O out of our solvents, with our “kitchen chemistry” methods. But, don’t let that slow you down. You do you!

@CAAB

I am interested in the cigar because I read that it’s difficult to translate the flavors over to PGA. Guess we’ll find out!

@50YearsOfCigars is the cigar NET guru here on ELR. It’s his life work! However, I’ll let him jump in and give his opinion on the subject. I can say, from personal experience, he’s produced some spectacular cigar NET! He produced a phenomenal Aged Nicaraguan Ligero which I’ve been nursing in a dripper for the past couple of weeks. His maceration methods are quite interesting and unique… but, have a stellar outcome.

[CAAB]

We should all be so wise as to channel our inner Gene Wilder when mixing.

Glad to know H2O is not an issue for you. It makes sense. 5% or so in a flavor extract that is only being used at 7% - 10% is a pretty small proportion. My experience is with thinning e-liquid with distilled water at a higher ratio. It worked, but sounded like Krakatoa.

I checked out @50YearsOfCigars sample list and am very impressed. I never have stumbled upon such a nuanced collection. I am very curious as to his method.

Just finished stage one of the hot ethanol maceration—a perique. I had definite wafts of spicy cigar notes. Will shelve it for a couple of weeks before removing the tobacco and reducing. Next will be the Latakia!