Doing a bit of an experiment with another extraction. Deciding to go hybrid with a PGA hot/cold maceration this go round.
.5g of a locally mixed pipe blend tobacco (Virginia, Latakia & Perique) topped with 100ml of PGA heated to 150 degrees; stirred slightly to moisten tobacco and off to the cool steep closet for a month. 
9/2/16…see ya then!
Tossing this over here since it reminded me of the above PGA extraction which I needed to comment upon after the filter process:
I did two versions of the local Latakia, Virginia and Perique Blend; one PGA and one PG. The PGA version (even though it’s more of a pain in the butt to filter) came out much cleaner, crisp and vibrant. This outcome won’t keep me from doing it the lazy man’s way (Quick PG method), but perhaps for those higher price tobaccos which deserve time and care, I’ll spring for the PGA hybrid hot start/cold steep method. 
Hiho,
tobacco leaves arrived and waiting for beeing extracted. BUT alcohol with 96,9% is expensive, because there is a high tax on. Can i use 2-Propanol for the extraction? If not, i have to swallow this toad. I think the result with alcohol is better than with PG. More you get out from the leaves.
Just want to start this journey into NET and like to choose the best solution.
over&out
Weedhunter
Stick with ethyl alcohol… 151 proof of something, if you don’t want to purchase a higher proof.
Read a toxicology report on 2-propanol/
isopropyl alcohol… it needs to stay in the medicine chest.
I have had good success with 151 PGA, despite what others might say. I just wrapped up a 6 month maceration process of War Horse Green:
150 ml of 151 EA solvent was used during the maceration process, then filtered and reduced down to 30ml worth of usable extract. This turned out to be one of the best EA extraction’s I’ve done so far; very pleased.
Just learned that I do not have access to 190 proof Pure Grain Alcohol (EverClear) in my state, so bought the 151 proof. (Man, this stuff is not cheap)
Question: Is there something that you do differently in the process to adjust for the lower alcohol / greater water content in the 151 proof?
Does PGA mean pure grain alcohol?
151 Proof is 75,5% Vol. -> 24,5 % Vol. water.
My research says, if you want to extract plants you need water too. The water let the plant parts swell up. Now the alcohol can solve better. That explain your good results.
My thoughts about using high proof alcohol was about less water in the endproduct.
over&out
Weedhunter
Nope…
Some folks get bent because the H2O in the 151 PGA might pull out a bit more of the natural dextrose in the tobacco, causing the coil to gunk a bit faster and making the extract a bit sweet. It doesn’t bother me that much, since I perform a wick change and coil burn on a daily basis anyway and I don’t mind a little sweetness with my NET vapes.
There are also those that say an extraction with anything less than a 190 or 200 proof PGA is garbage… my opinion is, that is not true. In short… to each their own.
If folks want to spend their money on expensive proof EA or go through the process of using 3A molecular sieve beads to rid the EA of H2O… they can knock themselves out. Again… to each their own. I’ll go the cheap route… I’m easy.
Yes… pure grain alcohol; sometimes you will see me and others refer to it as EA (ethyl alcohol) or Ethanol.
So grateful to you for sharing all these secrets. I’ll try both methods soon.
So far, I’ve only done the heating (about 3 times) + filtering (also 3 times) method. And, I’ve been quite happy with the results (better than everything I got from vendors). In the beginning, the eliquid tastes more like green, unburned tobacco, but it gets better after some time. I mostly use PG.
I guess it’s essential for me to follow your advice and continue with freezing. I will. Many thanks again.
Also, I don’t think I can get pure alcohol here in Thailand. I can only use Vodka, Rum, Whiskey. What do you think?
Finally, anything new in the extraction experiment?
Hi everyone ,this is my first post!This site is really good ,I find it easy to navigate .
I m just beginning diy mixing .
Does anyone have recommendations for the type of ethanol to use for NET ?I am considering giving it a go ,I live in New Zealand so should be able to get Tobacco leaf and ethanol.The reason I ask is I dont want to use any that has benzene or anything added .There is a good guide on Reddit by Denis Bouchard as well .
A pure grain alcohol (PGA) from your local liquor store should be fine to use. I’ve used the 151 proof “Everclear” brand of PGA for extractions with great success. With using a lower proof PGA, your NET will benefit from performing an evaporation process at some point, prior to or after filtering, to rid the extraction of as much H2O as possible; reduces the snap, crackle and pop factor in vaping the end product. Good luck in your endeavor! 
hey so this is an e mail I got
Ethyl Alcohol Reply
Southern Grain Spirits spirits@southerngrainspirits.co.nz
Sun 10/06, 10:26 p.m.
You
Hi
Thank you for your email enquiry.
The price for a “Duty Paid” litre bottle of 96.4% Ethyl Alcohol
including freight and GST is $116.15.
The price for a “Duty Paid” litre bottle of 70% Ethyl Alcohol including
freight and GST is $87.40.
Denatured alcohol (with Methanol - Not Potable) is available at $15.00
per litre plus freight and GST.
If you have a NZ Customs Permit or are a Customs Controlled Area (CCA)
the “Duty Your Care” prices are attached.
Please do not hesitate to ring or email us if you have any questions.
$116 NZD is approx $78 USD ,so its quite a bit .
Hi, I am wondering if anyone has developed a method of PGA extraction they are satisfied with? I have 5 PGA soaked tobaccos ready for heating for 12 hours at 160 degrees F. But am wondering if I should cold macerate them for 6 months instead?
I am also thinking of using dry ice to reduce the temperature even further for the final filtration. I discovered the strategy when stumbling upon a technique people use for cannabis extraction. The technique is called QWET. Which is really along similar lines. Tobacco and cannabis are plants, and you don’t want chlorophyl, waxes, oils, and other such things in the flavor extract.
I kinda have. 
Mine isn’t one which uses 100% EA (ethyl alcohol) in the maceration. I was never really happy with how much extract was left remaining after the reduction/filter process. Plus, it was more of a longer, drawn out process than my usual PG macerations which are rather quick and simple. So, I do a “hybrid” mix of PG/EA on the leaf during maceration; usually a half and half kinda thing, heat the maceration at 125*F for 8 hours, cool steep for a couple of months, evap the EA off for an hour over warm water, filter it down to 2.5um, bottle it, and mix it.
Well, you could split each maceration in half and do a little experiment. 
The purpose of warming the maceration is to get a bolder flavor out of the leaf. Whereas, cold macerations return a lighter, gentler outcome. I like bold.
You might want to be ready to skim the ice off the top of the extract during that process. 
If your using 191 EA, it may not be that bad… but, there’s some H2O in that 151 EA which will probably freeze when dry ice is introduced to the process. This is pure speculation, mind you… I’ve never produced any NET extract using dry ice. However, I have read of individuals rending H2O from EA using dry ice.
I’m pretty happy with not having copious amounts of tar in my NET vape; I can overlook those other little devils. 
Thanks Kinnikinnick for the fast reply!
I too am concerned about how much will be left after reduction. I plan on doing my reduction prior to freeze filtering. The logic to this is that the oils and resins become super saturated when the ethanol is evaporated, so the freeze filtering becomes even more effective. This method is not recommended on smaller extractions, but I thought, hey, why not? All in the name of progress.
I am starting my tests with approx 120ml 190 proof PGA in 4oz canning jars. I am hoping that after tobacco removal, reduction, and filtration, to end up with between 10 - 25 ml extract, but have no way of knowing yet.
I will use a potato ricer to press the ethanol out of the tobacco. The metal strainer won’t absorb liquid, so I won’t lose much there. Just what doesn’t come out of the leaves. I will then evaporate the extract by 70%, and place in a freezer.
After winterizing in the freezer for 3 days, I will transfer the extract and a filter funnel to a cooler with dry ice and let it all cool further for about an hour. Then I will perform another filtration. I will be using a Busy Liz canning filter I purchased off eBay. It allows the install of a filter at the bottom. I will cut a coffee filter to size and pre-wet with 190 proof PGA to minimize filter loss. Since the filter will be small, I won’t lose as much from absorption.
I may place some dry ice granules directly on the filter paper to assist in filtration, if I can source food-grade dry ice. The idea is that the ethanol will pass through the dry ice but will capture some of the oils/resins before they clog the filter. This is really just conjecture at this point. The dry ice may sublimate before it captures anything. But at least it will look very science-like with fog and all.
I also sourced some Whatman Grade 5 filters. I plan on using them in the final filtration, again, fitting them in the Busy Liz canning funnel, and pre-wetting them to minimize losses. If the dry ice granule ‘pre-filter’ works very well, I may be able to skip the coffee filter, and just go straight to the 2.5 micron filter.
I contemplated something similar, using VG/PGA. My concern was that the 5% water from the 190 proof PGA would be absorbed by the VG and difficult to evaporate off. Do you get a lot of popping from the water content in your hybrid mix? Or is it low enough to not matter?
I like bold as well. I think I’ll just start with the heated extraction, see how that works. If I’m not happy, I’ll try the 6 month cold soak.
Starting the clock today, I will begin heating my 190 proof PGA extractions. Will post the results when all is said and done. I have a spectrum of pipe tobaccos and one cigar chopped up. I am interested in the cigar because I read that it’s difficult to translate the flavors over to PGA. Guess we’ll find out!
Kudos! 
It sounds like you have done a gosh plenty research, have your process figured out, and are ready to to dive into your project head first! Good for you. Go Man!
… heck yeah!
The hydroscopic issues haven’t been a noticeable issue with my extractions… and I don’t fret over it too much anyway. @50YearsOfCigars will tell you, it’s pretty much impossible for us to keep H2O out of our solvents, with our “kitchen chemistry” methods. But, don’t let that slow you down. You do you!
@50YearsOfCigars is the cigar NET guru here on ELR. It’s his life work! 
However, I’ll let him jump in and give his opinion on the subject. I can say, from personal experience, he’s produced some spectacular cigar NET! He produced a phenomenal Aged Nicaraguan Ligero which I’ve been nursing in a dripper for the past couple of weeks. His maceration methods are quite interesting and unique… but, have a stellar outcome. 
We should all be so wise as to channel our inner Gene Wilder when mixing.
Glad to know H2O is not an issue for you. It makes sense. 5% or so in a flavor extract that is only being used at 7% - 10% is a pretty small proportion. My experience is with thinning e-liquid with distilled water at a higher ratio. It worked, but sounded like Krakatoa.
I checked out @50YearsOfCigars sample list and am very impressed. I never have stumbled upon such a nuanced collection. I am very curious as to his method.
Just finished stage one of the hot ethanol maceration—a perique. I had definite wafts of spicy cigar notes. Will shelve it for a couple of weeks before removing the tobacco and reducing. Next will be the Latakia!
That was an early lesson for me as well… hated the snap, crackle, and POP which distilled water provided in my juice.
That one will be a nice addition to a juice with needs a little sweet funk.
Okay, so I still have a month or so of testing different blends based off my ethanol extracts to give any kind of firm feedback, but I can say a few things:
Anyway, I can say I am on the right path. Best naturally extracted tobacco I’ve had, compared to commercial eLiquids. But still my procedure needs to be refined, and the ratio of blended extracts to eLiquid needs work.
That was unexpected and exciting!
…guess it all depends on your base mix; a heavier VG ratio may smooth things out?
…, indeed! I like a good smooth Latakia vape on occasion; evenings before bedtime is my usual time for that kinda vape.
I’ve enjoyed this one 
a bunch!
https://www.pipesandcigars.com/mobile/p/moonshine-pipe-co-xxx-blend-pipe-tobacco/1489503/#p-171093
Awesome extraction experiment! Glad you had some success with your method. One of these days I’ll have to give this a try. We use dry ice for low lying fog effects in the theatre… there’s usually a 5 gallon bucket worth of DI left over at the end of the gig; perfect for a EA extraction!
Now… I just need to decide what tobacco to put in a jar for the future!
Thanks for the excellent post to bring us up to date on your progress so far. Please keep the reports coming in.
A couple of random comments:
1.) I thought you were going to use the dry ice to cool the liquids by using a jacketed setup, for example nesting two beakers and placing the dry ice in a liquid with a very low freezing point. Your dry ice is -80C and you could use soome of the 191 proof ethyl alcohol which will remain liquid to -100C.
2.) The slow filtering is going to be a pain in the ass unless you vacuum assist the process. All this lab equipment gets expensive in a hurry. I went with centrifuge ‘filtration’, which of course is not filtration at all. I have an explanation of that method and further comments there about the techniques on the forum HERE. In that discussion is some comments about the desirability of leaving behind some of the flavor components in tobacco NET extractions, which are very finely divided solids.
3.) I attribute some of the success I have had with cigar filler type tobacco to leaving behind those flavor components. I have definitely observed that those extractions that are centrifuged ‘age’ like fine wine and get noticeably better over time.
4.) I encourage you to do simultaneous parallel extractions of the same leaf sample but with differing solvents and techniques. Then A/B the results with strict SFT techniques that I will describe next in item #5. You will see things like the PG extractions having better base notes, and the EA solvents bringing the lighter notes over. Later you can ‘blend these to suit.’ There are great results possible with blending, especially with cigar filler leafs, and macerated actual professional hand rolled cigars that have the benefit of expert professional blending skills from brands like Joe Marti.
5.) If you have two old mods hanging around that you can use and two identical MTL RDAs then you can do ‘real-time A/B testing’ of the parallel extraction experiments. I gain invaluable information this way. Here is pic of my set up for that. I use Vandy Vape 18mm Berserker RDAs for this and find them ideal for the purpose. Your milage might vary, you might prefer a different atty for this project.
… I clipped the following pic and comment from a post of mine about Black Note Clone testing, so just ignore the BN bottles haha ROTFL !!
… two identical Vandy Vape 18mm Berserker RDA set up with identical coils 3.0mm 26ga SS contact coils, on: identical JoyeTech VIC VTWO Mini regulated mods set to 15 watts:
Again THANKS for the report, I enjoyed reading it very much !!!
