Haven’t read everybody else’s comments yet. But my take, this was more prevalent a couple years ago, when a good rda or rta was $50 - 100 bucks. Now top quality rdas can get for $20 - 30 there is no need to buy a clone.
When I was targeting certain RTAs to fill out my vape stash, I had 2 main ones. The first was the Joytech Ego / Tron line. Love the rebuildable CLR coils. Since Joytech stopped making them and retailers started clearing them out at reduced prices, I was able to get originals at very good prices.
The 2nd RTA was the Kayfun Lite Plus V2. SvoëMesto’s price was $120.00. For an RTA? I don’t think so. I wanted 8 of them. I started doing some research on the clones and the EH Pro version got very good reviews. So, I ordered 8 of them at $9.95 each.
I felt a little dirty, but I took that $880.00 I saved, and rubbed it all over myself, and felt clean as a whistle again.
It turned out that SvoëMesto had discontinued the KFL+V2 anyway. It wouldn’t have made any difference in my decision though, if they still had them in stock. I understand a business has overhead and expenses, but so does my business, which is my family / household budget. I’m sure SvoëMesto didn’t scour the planet for the highest quality materials, regardless of price. They got the best deal they could, on materials that met their requirements, like any good business does.
I did the same thing.
I’ve been thinking about the kayfun situation particularly since it came up earlier. This is where the “China factories stealing from Chinese factories and who cares” attitude really irks me. In this particular instance, we are talking about German Engineering. It’s one of the big things the Germans are known for. Beer and amazing engineering. When you want it, you pay for it. Like a Rolex. If you can’t afford a $10,000 watch, you should probably buy a Timex, not a knock-off Rolex. The knock-off won’t work like a Rolex, wont be made of the same metals and inner workings, only stands as a trick to fool people into thinking you can afford a $10,000 watch. Not the same thing as the kayfun, I know, but you get my point.
I won’t be supporting the knock-off industry. You guys and gals that are ok with it, I’m ok with you, I’m not the knock-off police! I just wanted more insight to help make up my mind and to understand how it works and you’ve all been very helpful and informative. Thanks!!
I think people who look down on others who buy and use clones are uppity turds that should be over on ECF.
When taking about clones, there is also another aspect which was highlighted by this thread After Delivery Fees? **ADVISORY!**.
If you buy an original item in another country / outside of the EU, you will get a ridiculous high extra bill if your package get checked in customs. Clones however are cheap enough that they fall under the “de minimis” limit with no import fees, VAT or import tax.
To make matters even worse, if you live in the EU and the product is not registered as a TPD compliant product, you also risk that it will be outright confiscated in customs. A chance you can afford to take with a cheap clone, but not something that you want to gamble with for a 100$ atty. And to make it even more worse, it is almost impossible to figure out which products are registered or not.
Ironically the legislation is encouraging us to buy clones instead of the originals!
I hope I haven’t offended anybody. I thought I made it clear that I’m ok with everybody on this, not that anyone needs my approval! I opened this subject up when it finally dawned on me that there is this widely accepted practice of copying gear 1:1. And was trying to wrap my head around why it’s so accepted. We had a nice debate, and i made up my mind not to buy into the clone market. Everyone is cool here.
I for one don’t think you were offensive at all. We all have different mores, ethics, and beliefs. A thread like gives most of us a way to express those aspects of ourselves in an amicable manner. The thread was a very interesting read for me and I appreciate it’s presence.
Thank you!! I was expecting the torches and pitchforks any minute now I thought it was a pretty healthy hashing out of the topic, from all sides. I’m glad you appreciate it.
Nothing wrong with sharing our different views and discussing matters in a civilized manner. I don’t think you have written anything anybody could reasonably be offended by.
I’m sure you offended someone. Hell you can’t even read a kid’s book these days without someone getting butt hurt over it.
Not me though. I’m rather like a pachyderm. Just felt like stirring the cauldron
I just need to put my 2 cents in here.
I have clones. I have authentics. I have clones that are the same as or better than authentics in some cases. I like having the option to decide the setup I am going to carry when I move around town, through ghettos and otherwise is not going to be expensive enough that it bothers me if someone wants to try to rob me for it. I like knowing the mod I just dropped in a parking lot didnt cost me a couple hundred bucks. I also like having the real deal sometimes for vaping at home or otherwise, but value is everything.
As I see it, we get 4 types of authentic equipment.
Equipment (A) designed in the west and manufactured in the far east, and marketed at a price that is honest and fair based on the manufacturing cost. (Council of Vapor, CoilArt, & 528 Customs are good examples here)
Equipment (B) designed and manufactured in the west, and marketed at a price that is honest and fair based on the manufacturing cost. (Svoemaesto, Squape, Whiterose, and many many more)
Equipment © that is designed in the west, manufactured in the east, and priced like it was manufactured in the west. (Dotmod, I’m looking right at you, as well as so many others). You cannot ask 500 or 1000 % over cost and expect people to pay it. You are putting minimal effort and then we hear about you leaving customers and distributors hanging if the products are not working properly.
Equipment (D) that is designed and manufactured in the far east, and marketed at a price that is honest and fair based on the manufacturing cost (Wotofo, Wizmec, etc)
The clones of the various types vary widely in quality. The clones of type A C and D equipment are spot on, generally so accurate that without additional layers of authentication, no one can tell the difference. Clones of type B equipment are often very bad, because the far east does not have manufacturing data and specs.
We see lots of clones of type A and C. These are often the ones where people get sooo butthurt about “fuck all clones” and these are the most ridiculous because the clones are so close to perfect. The price is pure inflation and pocket lining. The support is often sparse and barely acceptable. In the end, if you farm manufacturing out to China, be prepared to buy everything they can make or expect them to make as much as they can and sell whatever you don’t buy on the open market. These are clones I buy and use unabashedly, and anyone who faults someone who does is a stuck up twat.
The clones of type B are often out of spec, offered in finishes that are not available in authentics, and generally very little care is taken by the far east to make good copies of these things beyond 20 foot outward appearance. These clones I generally accept or reject on a case by case basis, taking value, quality, and availability into account.
We dont see many clones of type D, because the price between authentic and clone is generally not that much.
So in closing, clones are a complicated subject. Companies like Dotmod that want to gouge the market for their china made mods and atomizers and pretend they are better than everyone else, don’t worry, I wont be seen with your crap or clones of it anyway. Companies that sell china made authentics at a fair price and provide good customer support for the cost difference (Council of Vapor I can say does this well), I dont see a need, given my financial position, to buy clones. Companies that sell china made authentics and are notoriously unfair to customers and distributors (528 Customs, you get alot of bad press for this), yeah I’ll buy clones of your stuff all day long. And chinese companies selling authentics at reasonable prices, I’ll buy your stuff too. All that said, there are some things you just cannot clone. DNA boards are one example, but evolv seems to have pretty good controls in place. Batteries are another, and I wish, for everyone’s sake, we could stop with the counterfeit batteries. It is too dangerous, too much potential harm to people and to vaping, to have batteries in play that are not exactly what they claim to be.
I agree 1000% with wut @JMak642 just says. I too utilize both ends of the sprectrum and couldn’t agree more. Very well worded and factual. I personally, usually invest in a clone to “test drive” a new product if I’m totally unsure on my opinion to come. 9 times out of 10 I’m happy and give the clone away once I invest in the authentic if I don’t deem it necessary to keep the clone (I.e unless it’s a damn spade of spades and it’s like owning 2 authentic wtf lol). The other 1 of of 10 times where I’m just simply not a fan of particular build deck or wick ports I’m thankful to have only wasted $10-$15 as opposed to $30-$50. Everyone has their own logic/reasoning and that happens to be mine. Nobody else’s offends me or pisses me off for that matter when this community is so good at civilized debates such as this! Excellent thread. Kudos to original post @Plunderdrum and massive shout out to the entire group for all the great opinions! Vape on and live long friends!!
Speaking of clones, I’m wanting a really good mechanical tube mod but I don’t want to shell out big bux. Link me!!!
you can always buy a Movado, love them
… you’re funny!!!
You forgot their latest engineering feat of trying to cheat their way around vehicle emission testing.
I’ll put my $10 ‘trick’ up against any $120 KFL+V2 that came from the Fatherland. No leaks, performs perfectly. I’m not sure what inner workings you’re referring to. A couple of intersecting air channels and a few screws. I’ve been using my first one, daily, for almost 2 years. I haven’t even needed to change an o-ring yet. There just isn’t enough of a quality difference to warrant a $110 difference in price.
I thought I covered that saying the Rolex knock-off thing was…
“Not the same thing as the kayfun, I know, but you get my point.”
I want a cloned sex doll. One of those realistic ones where all the parts are in the right place. And I don’t want one that’s reverse-engineered by a Chinese manufacturer either. If they have specs for Swedish girls…hell even a Greek chick, I’m not that picky. Just don’t be sending me something like the last Goon clone I bought where the top cap was so loose it fell off all the time. Nope, something that fits tight and doesn’t yammer on about the drama at work or says oh my god, I’m getting so fat! One that will do whatever I want and then shut the hell up. I’m willing to pay up to $350.