You can ignore this: I just figured a thread of my own would allow me to better keep notes and fountain bullshit without it being spread back and forth all over the forums, so I can find random snippets… easily, later 
And naturally, there’s never any disagreement when thinking out loud to myself 
Carry on with whatever you were doing 
Not entirely 
To add biscuit to honey & milk, or to not…
Always taking the big issues head-on, that’s me.
Edit: Oh I know biscuit with milk, two creams and honey would taste good, but would blow apart the purity of the simple creamy + sweet profile
Edit: I’ll leave it untainted: I mixed these two to get to know the flavours after all and cannot if I start adding shit…
Tastes precisely like “Pudding” by The Milkman.
Creamy, slightly sweet, “lightly” buttery and with a very faint tanginess that your tastebuds will mistake for a whispery background note of lemon.
Yah, whispery lemon - look out Shakespeare.
Excellent flavour concentrate that I can happily use as a single-flavour ADV anytime, which I know because I used to love the Milkman “Pudding” as an ADV because (just like this flavour) it’s sweet but not too sweet, complex enough on its own but not sloppy or overbearing and that hint of smooth lemon in the background has no acidity to it (like lemon merengue), opens the flavour up and prevents it being monotone and boring.
I could easily go 7% as a single flavour, but 5% is enough because it just tastes good.
Mixed, it dominates whatever you add it to quite easily so I suppose tiny percentages are needed if you have any mind to force this flavour to play nicely and share.
See, having a notepad thread is just, a good idea.
Carefull with them edits… The edit police will come after you again 
Additional note to self: nicer tasting liquid has altered my consumption.
Just in the past few days having flavours I love the taste of I’ve simultaneously reduced the nicotine percentage of mixes from 12mg/mL down to 3-6mg/mL while vaping twice the amount, easily.
Dunno how much I’m consuming now specifically, but more with less nicotine though I also add an equal amount of salt nic base to the liquid as freebase, so 3mg/mL of both, or 6mg/mL since the salt nic allows for more flavour to get through than would be the case if I merely increased the freebase amount.
I fuckin hate that daily edit limit…
There’s absolutely no benefit to ir whatever.
I noticed while perusing the recipe side of the site there’s an awful lot of comments they’ve simply been copy/pasted from one user over many and figure original content is always a benefit 
Because I’m working my way through these flavours two at a time, and want to fully taste the changes in those flavours as they change from freshly shaken to day seven of steeping.
This seemed to me a more relaxed way of testing the flavours because I’m not forcing myself into literal SFT of one at a time, but I’m limiting myself to only two mix flavours at a time so my taste buds and olfactory snotty bits don’t get confused, if that makes sense.
So I’m allowing myself to be more free to simply add however many drops I want on the test mixes without bothering to measure yet - making it less of a chore - while still containing myself to my testing two flavours but in combination.
Tell ya what too Broski, by the time I’ve vaped this for a week and tasted the flavours settle into the VG a little more each day, I will add some Buiscut Base (VTA) and imagine how good that’ll pop, as a buttery, bakery addition to the ridiculously smooth Honey & Milk.
It’ll be quite the little present for my mouth, adding that matching but all new layer of flavour.
I’m still using another tank with different liquid to flush-out the milk & honey of course, but I wanna keep the milk & honey as simple as possible until it’s been steeping a week - which still isn’t a long time, but vaping it several days in a row leading up to that will give me a pretty good idea of the flavours.
My disadvantage in tasting is of course, that I’ve not had a chance to taste a vast swathe of different versions of quality flavours from quality vendors like Capella, FlavorArt, Flavor West etcetera: I mean I know this honey is good and it’s better today than when I first mixed it last night but I can’t compare it to TFA honey or any other brand because I’ve had no experience with those brands.
The only quality flavours I’ve tried are by way of commercial juices, though that’s alright: I *do know what almost every flavour should taste like in reference to how the real foods they’re mimicking taste, which is probably the best yardstick for comparison anyway.
I know what tastes bad though, and know what bad tasting flavours are like 
Another dual-flavour mix I’ve already, mixed, and have in the cupboard is Barrel Oak (VTA) and I did actually try it single when I first added it to the VG, but it’s so mild (even mixed at 9% right off the bat), that I couldn’t see it making a mix that’s enjoyable to vape.
So I added Acetyl Pyrazine 6% (VTA) to the barrel oak since I’m already very well acquainted with the various nutty/cereally notes of AP at various percentages which allows me to take the barrel oak for a decent test-drive while still giving me a juice with a complete enough flavour to be a good vape.
Tastes great too: the combination of the barrel oak with the heavily nutty AP - they go well together.
My very first recipe: I’ll write it properly when it’s not only three hours off sunrise.
Hangsten Arab blend tobacco (at whatever % you prefer) in glycerine-only base that’s been steeping 3 weeks then add acetyl pyrazine @ 1% and barrel oak @ 5%
9% freebase + 20% salt = 29mg/mL combined.
It came to mind because I started steeping some Arab Blend tobacco a few weeks ago, then yesterday realized I could use it as a base and how well the oak and roasted nuts would go with that subtle NET-based tobacco taste which - for anyone who doesn’t know it - is a super mild tobacco flavour that seems to have no skanky bits and a smooth caramel that’s more pronounced than the tobacco itself.
None of that low nicotine dessert shit (yes yeah desserts are my favourite too, before the anyone chimes-in, but this is a tobacco for the Dutch chick): with 29% combined nic content it’s got all the lung hit a tobacco liquid should have, with the few flavours mild enough to not be loud on your taste buds, like tobacco should be.
I’ll write this up properly soon as I’ve got coffee and settled-down for the night.
Edit: if anyone’s converted their freebase to salt with citric acid or currently does, definitely feel free to contribute any tips or improvements you know of.
Also: equally, if anyone knows for a fact that this is a very bad idea, definately feel free to explain why, because I cannot find enough on the topic - anywhere - to know one way or another, yet I do know that if we can make our own salts this easily but nobody’s been doing so, simply because they read it was a bad idea on reddit, well that’s not a good enough reason to not be trying something and reddit isn’t full of chemistry professors, but ordinary people for the most part who are inclined to just parrot what they heard themselves.
Maybe do it in notepad then just copy/paste, since the fucking edit-fairies will stop me soon as I reach my pointless daily edit limit because shock as it is, this actually works: with a jar of citric acid you can buy at ANY supermarket for $3 you can turn your much less expensive freebase into much more expensive salts and save a fortune.
It’s sure as shit looking that way from what I’ve observed, but given I’ve volunteered myself to be the guinea-pig for this self-conceived experiment, I have to make sure it works without any adverse collapsing, dizzy spells or heart-attacks before definitively stating everyone should go ahead and do it.
If I can determine it a successful method of creating salts that’re as good as the overpriced commercial base we all buy, the rest of you can go ahead and try it and report back on your findings, which can be discussed and any issues - if there are any - be addressed and rectified by everyone since the only information I’ve had to inspire the experiment are a smattering of reddit posts about combining various acids with freebase to create salts and of those, almost all just dismiss completely, any kind of acid that’s not benzoic because that’s the acid listed as being used in the Juul patent for their salt nicotine: truth is there are numerous types of acids that can be used to convert to salts, but nothing’s written about them anywhere I can find.
It’s looking almost instantly extremely promising however, so we’ll see.
It’ll take until tomorrow for the CA crystals to dissolve completely into the freebase solution is why you have to wait that long: though I read (the little there was of it) that people trying to use CA to make salts were heating and mixing and all sorts of bullshit to dissolve their CA crystals instantly, I found simply pouring the crystals straight in the nic base works fine - you’ve just gotta wait overnight for the shit to absorb into the PG.
Really though, there was so little written that I could find about using CA for salts… not even much about Benzoic Acid, but it got to the point where I was getting the impression that (just like people parroting “you GOTTA use unbleached and organic cotton!”) people were merely spewing out what they’d read about converting freebase to salts and fuckin’ very few had ever even tried it, so everyone’s parroting “You CAN use CA, but BA is better” without any further information on why or what’s wrong with it, when there’s a pretty long list of acids that can be used.
I’ve tried with freebase and CA once before and the CA smoothed the lung hit right out the freebase, but since I tried it with freebase that was already only 6mg/mL or so there wasn’t really any way of knowing whether it had any strength to it or not.
I didn’t die or anything obviously - didn’t get sick… didn’t even cough and yet the base had enough CA in it to taste as tangy as commercial salts when I lick-tested it.
I did measure roughly though: adding roughly an equal amount of CA as there was nicotine in the 10mL or so I tried it with: like 6mg/mL x 10mL = 60mg of citric acid though I recall adding a touch less since that’s better than having excess CA that’s undissolved in there.
Anyway that’s my experiment for the day and I"ll do the same amount as last time, but with uncut 100mg/mL base.
10mL x 100mg = 1 gram of citric acid for the 1 gram freebase nicotine.
So 0.900mg I’ll add to the 10mL base then leave it overnight to dissolve.
Been meaning to try this out with full strength nic base a while now, but I’m easily distracted by other shit, obviously, and will end up being distracted by that banana cream if I don’t set my mind to do this instead: if it’s smooth enough and has the nic hit commercially manufactured salt base does, then local raught-artist vape sites can go and f%#$k themselves and I can stick to ordering freebase for $150 per litre - instead of $500 per litre salts.
CA is $3 for a 75 gram jar from any supermarket, so if this works I’ll be saving $350 on every litre of salt base I don’t order.
Even if it didn’t work mind you, I’m still better off ordering only freebase and tracking down the Benzoic Acid to create salts like the manufacturers do, later.
5 grams actually: why waste good freebase if it’s a fail…
So 0.450 grams CA…
0.400 grams I ended up adding: just because it looked like so much citric acid and to minimize the chance of having undissolved crystals in there tomorrow or the next day, though it was completely dissolved within 24 hours last time I did it.
We want nice clear liquid: regardless any ill effects vaping a CA crystal might happen to cause, I don’t want to vape them because they’ll taste like shit.
After only two hours, it’s already visibly dissolved to the point there’s no little particles of CA in there, so I’ve cut it down by 50% with glycerine then gone ahead and dripped a few drops to test it @ 50mg/mL.
Because it was only plain 50mg nicotine base with plain glycerine, it had that disgusting plastic taste but here’s the important bit: at 50mg/mL, it was smooth enough to vape without any impulse to cough, which you all know would be fucking impossible with freebase that strong.
This tells me the freebase must have changed into salts.
They’re just bubbles from shaking in the following photo, anyhow…
Because it tastes like shit without flavouring, I’ve cut the 50mg/mL base with another 5gms of glycerine, then added these flavours to make it palettable…
Still and all, I wont rule it a complete success until tomorrow afternoon, when the CA has had enough time to thoroughly absorb into the freebase, but from this initial test result I heave to say it’s worked a treat.
Course I should go talk to the local pharmacies - starting with the foxy chick chemist - about where I would obtain Benzoic Acid, but: a) citric acid is much easier to get and b) it sounds like something meth cooks use and I dunna how helpful your average chemist would want to be even if it’s perfectly legal to sell or source.
I mean if the chemist in question (not the foxy chick, she seems to hot and she knows it, to be having hang-ups, at all, ever) even suspects I"m asking about random chemicals for the manufacture of drugs, they’re probably going to be too suspect to wanna help anyway.
Of course I would explain why I want it, but that doesn’t mean they’ll believe that’s what I want it for and then there’s the statement, “I wanna convert freebase nicotine into nicotine salts” and said chemist being worried I’m doing something SO unsafe they will quietly refuse to help, by simply telling me they don’t know where to get Benzoic Acid from.
So citric is the better acid to use, in several respects.
The mere fact that just two hours after adding citric acid to 50mg/mL freebase, I was able to vape it perfectly comfortably means it’s either no longer freebase or it’s suddenly the smoothest freebase on the planet, when even 20mg of unadulterated freebase will make anybody nearly cough-out a lung it’s so harsh.
And the only thing I know about it, is that mixing with Benzioc Acid is done at a rate of 1 part BA to every 1 part freebase nicotine, but real chemists take molecular weight into account: using that same 1:1 ratio, I’ve calculated 500g CA to 500gm Freebase Nicotine, then ambiguously reduced the CA to 400:500 to account for the fact the CA could be heavier and I didn’t want un-dissolved bits of citric acid in my solution.
1 part acid to 1 part freebase ← that’s all the maths involved to convert freebase to salt.
This recipe/juice designer/template is growing increasingly complex even though the formulas are very simple:I still haven’t started creating a new juice yet - so busy aligning and arranging and inserting new cells and formulas, but I don’t wanna start getting creative until I’ve got the template done or I’ll wind-up having to go back to previous pages/sheets and add or edit countless cells that have been added or changed.
Changed the appearance though, so it’s less colourful and not such an eyeful and I wanna move the nicotine section under the flavourings section but that would mean doing the formulas again…
I want the spreadsheet to handle all the calculations so ALL I need to think about is what percentage of each flavour I want to make up the juice, with cells that tell me how much of everything there already is, which it’s already doing but I keep thinking of new shit to add.
Once I’ve finished the basic template, I can just copy the template to a new page/“sheet”, label it the name of the juice I’m creating and change the various fields for the new juice.
This will both tell me if any of the amounts I’m using aren’t adding-up so I know what to change, but also mean I can create a page for each recipe and have them all contained in one single spreadsheet with yeah a separate sheet for each recipe.
Also means changing a recipe is as easy as duplicating an existing one (like the Custard above) and creating a new page from it, then adding or adjusting whichever flavours I want and BANG: all permanently recorded for easy reference later.
Yeah @Ianc13 and @delltrapp it’s looking pretty slick: I’ve still gotta enter all the various values manually, but have avoided the annoyance of having disorganized scribbling all through a paper notebook or trying to fit more on a page I’ve already scribbled things out all over.
And every recipe I ever will create can be contained within one single Microsoft Excel spreadsheet - but a really fat one - like a book of spreadsheets.
What I really love though, is that by the time I’ve even got the ingredients out the cupboard, the recipe will already be completely finished with measurements and amounts accurate down to the .00.
All I have to do is add whatever grams have been calculated for each component - all done automatically - and if it’s ridiculously great juice the recipe is perfectly safe…
