Hehe @d_fabes, how the F$%@ did I miss that one !!!
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As one of “them” I can relate to that statement! Thrown into DIY due to SUDDEN FLAVORBAN in my state. Do I think SFT is a good thing for those perfecting the “craft” of mixing? Have to say probably so. Seems like it takes time and dedication, for now I gotta get some juice flowing in my coils😎
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Hehe, fuck, well shit, I’m pissing everyone off tonight @Rocky02852 !!!
Kidding. But seriously, if you are indeed a self proclaimed “Newer Mixer”, do you feel overly inclined to go mental over a shit ton of Single Flavor Testings right now, OR, maybe get your feet wet, and after your IN, in, then get into it, OR, maybe just seems like a hassle ??
You tell me.
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There’s no contradiction. In all the courses in different fields, teachers nearly always give you the best practice but in the end, people find their own ways. Why do they give those recommendations, because it’s the easiest way for the largest part of the group to gain speed the fastest possible way. That’s all I’m saying.
If you’re doing away with best practice from the get go, a lot of people will still get there over time, but it’ll just take them a longer time or they have to do a reset of their practices over time and start over to get it right.
But anyways,
You’re right 
Over and out 
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Fuck no, sorry just don’t have time for that right now, but did buy a 50 count lot of tester bottles if that makes anyone happy! I’m addicted to nicotine and don’t want to go back to cancer sticks thank you😎
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Well, that’s an UNDERSTATEMENT.
From a PURIST’s point of view, even I’M not doing it RIGHT, right. I mean, I figure out a set percentage (unless I’ve got a known screamer), and a set steep time, and just let it roll. I seldom do follow up tests (but I do sometimes), on different percentages, and different steep times. With the amount of tests that I do, there’s just NOT enough time, no other way to say it.
I’ve had many people ask me WHY do I do them ?? ROAR, good fucking question LOL !!!
I do it, because it helps me out a lot. SFT NEVER tells you how flavors will pair. It can sometimes offer up some hidden things, but SFT is Single Flavor only. I’ve had people ask, “Why go through all the hassle, time, effort, when you can just knuckle test, or test in a glass of water” ?? Well, IMO, VAPING a flavor can be VERY different from TASTING a flavor (i.e. knuckle, water). I’ve mixed up some great smelling recipes, and wow, you vape it, and it’s TOTALLY not what it knuckle/water tested like, so I stopped doing both.
I VAPE test because it’s FOR VAPING !!!
Doesn’t mean there’s no value in knuckle/water testing, it’s just not for me.
Maybe @authormichellehughes should change the title of this thread to “How DEEP do you want to go down the rabbit hole”. It’s all about Time, Effort, and Skill. The more you have of any ONE of them, moves you in the RIGHT direction. If by some chance you are blessed to have a surplus of all THREE, God Bless you. I sadly have barely any OF the three, so I am forced to pick and choose what to spend my time on.
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That makes me as happy as a shit, surfing !!!
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Thanks Session, you’ve said what I’ve been trying to explain. The beginners that come to me have no idea how to mix, what flavors to buy, what nicotine levels to use, what pg and vg to use or at what ratio. they want to look at recipes on ELR, adapt them to the nicotine and pg/vg they want and vape. We’re starting at ground zero and these are the questions they want explained.
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Rocky, unfortunately a lot of people are thrown into that same situation right now. They need to make something to vape now or go back to smoking. My job (as I see it) show people how to adapt recipes here on ELR and help them stay safe while mixing to whatever pg/vg nicotine level they need.
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You know what I would have really liked starting out? A simple breakdown of flavors from different manufacturers in the same flavor category (Vanilla Custard for example). Just a simple list of the most commonly used, and some just basic flavor nuances that people tasted in each flavor. Having that in one place, as opposed to finding each flavor individually and their respective notes would have made transitioning (and purchasing) just a little simpler for me starting out. Not necessarily pointing out which similar flavor between brands was most liked, but the subtle differences between them. Maybe that’s just me 
. Would be really neat to see you add the differences between adaptations and substituted flavors, I’m sure it would go a long way to helping people new to DIY too as it’s kind of overwhelming, maybe more so now. I feel like changing to DIY was more about saving money and the freedom to be creative back in 2015, and it’s become more of a necessity now.
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Wow @Silhouette I couldn’t agree MORE. Man, that would have saved me a LOT of $$$$$$ in the beginning, … AND time.
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Again, couldn’t agree more !!!
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Granted that was years ago, and there are many more flavor options, I tried to add some very basic flavor differences to some of my recipe notes (just in case someone needed to substitute a flavor or two). If someone who was really strong in different flavor notes and aspects did the same, it would make us UNSTOPPABLE! Or just make buying decisions a little simpler. 
Please disregard the Flavorah comment, Crunch Cereal had scarred me a little (alot).
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That was my thinking when I first started DIY, just something simple I can vape while I learn. My first simple recipe was just TFA Strawberry and Whipped Cream that got me off store bought.
Now I do SFT on some flavors that I can’t get a read on from just smell. Some flavors I have a decent idea what I want to do with it just by smelling it. I smell every flavor I get in vape mail and try to guess what it is before looking at the label. The ones that smell exactly like there description usually get mixed without doing a SFT, if it doesn’t come out as expected then I will take the time if it is a flavor I really like.
SFT is very valuable but for me too time consuming for the most part. I try to find shortcuts as often as possible and rely on my experience. Once I began to trust my nose, DIY became much easier for me. Might not work for other’s, just need to experiment and find your groove.
I honestly don’t concern myself with how others mix, just as long as they are having success then what’s the big deal? I do enjoy reading how other’s go about mixing though, the more info the better so thanks to everyone for sharing 
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I still class myself as a new mixer:
In the beginning I realised that I could diy much cheaper & more conveniently than relying on post, living rural area & no local B&M’s at the time & not knowing that ELR even existed…
At the time I was vaping single flavour shop bought juice…
The first flavours I found that I decided to try were FA & HIC’s notes and some recipes but I need too many flavours to make them.
I used these notes to purchase my first flavours & was vaping single flavour mixes. Not even a thought of mixing a recipe!
Then I was directed here & found so many recipes! 
I read & noted all the medians for what I had.
As sft’s were recommended here, I thought shit - better do them.
So I did - at the median for single flavours, so not “properly” but it was enough to know how the flavours “sat” with me, too strong, too weak, muted etc.
I have not done them again and haven’t on some flavours at all until now, a full two years into vaping, why?
- I trusted the info I had,
- My equipment was/is rubbish for testing,
- I was mixing two or three flavour recipes,
- What I was making was satisfactory to keep hubby & I off the smokes and definitely better than some of the rubbish I ordered online from China
Therefore, I didn’t feel a “need” to develop my mixing skills further.
In the meantime, I have moved from two-three ingredient recipes to recipes that are more complex and my palate has changed.
So I’m now in the process of “properly” sft’ing some of the flavours I already have and will Sft new flavours differently to when I started because of this.
I think, for new mixers, these things need to be considered:
- What are they vaping already - specifically?
- How long have they been vaping?
- How much time do they want to invest as a new mixer?
- Do they want to do sft’s?
- Will their equipment support sft’s?
Our needs are all as varied as our palate & these things will be different for everyone.
I think sft’s are important to a degree but they’re not imperative.
(Sorry - I didn’t mean to write a novel 
)
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Kudos to You for helping to get even one person off the butts!
I was already an experienced vaper but new to DIY, had to do my own research.
I know what flavors I like, fruits, easy-peasy. Creams, custards, deserts for me that would be more advanced. I have the same thought about SFT, more advanced. As far as flavor notes from others go, I take them with a grain of salt. One user says flavor taste like nail polish at 2% another loves it at 20% , I would consider SFT (single flavor test) more like SFT (self flavor test) doesn’t have any bearing on what somebody else may like. I can appreciate all those Abvanced Mixers that stress the importance of SFT’s, as I consider myself almost “all in” to DIY, have to see what happens at the next level😎
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Ah, the ever-insightful, well-learned @SessionDrummer. True words… with a caveat.
I think you are spot on with your analysis regarding smokers looking to quit, but that really isn’t the person typically coming here as a ‘new mixer’, or the person I was thinking about when I mention the need to SFT.
Most of the folks who I’ve seen come to a forum for help typically say something like- “Been vaping for a little while, looking to get into DIY juice”, or “I’ve been mixing for a little while but I’m struggling to-”, or something along those lines. I’m thinking of new mixers, not new vapers.
I really do think back to my own early days of mixing, and I think of the things that would have helped me back then to get a better handle on the whole mixing game we play. And from that perspective, getting to know your flavors was a big factor in making better recipes. That’s where my advice comes from. I’m definitely not talking to the me who was so new he held the mod sideways like a ciggy. I’m talking to the me who tried and failed to find much success after trying to mix without much guidance. Read, ask questions, know your flavors.
If that makes sense.
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Well put. I’ve been diy’ing for for years now 4 or 5 and have only done maybe 10 sft’s. I see the point but it’s not for me. And not to tootle my own horn but I like to think I’m a good mixer.
Do I feel a new mixer should evaluate their flavors, read and research. Yup. That’s what I did. I’m so thankful for those that post SFT notes and info. I am great full that there are people who like exploring sft’s…but for me I can’t stand them.
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Hey, I like novels. My main goal is to get people into mixing as quickly as possible for reasons stated above. If they choose to go back and do SFT tests later, then they can find that information. I want these people vaping so they don’t go back to smoking. The people I deal with are starting from nothing, I like you followed HIC’s notes (and a few professional mixers that I was/am friends with today) I was taught this way and it worked great for me. It’s a personal preference… you either SFT every bottle or you don’t. I don’t. I never would tell anyone how to do their DIY and would never listen to someone telling how to do my DIY (being honest) it’s such a personal thing. If it works for you that’s all that matters. There are plenty of people out there teaching them SFT these days if they want to learn, so not my wheelhouse 
I teach people how to start making mixes immediately and keep them from going back to smoking, which for me is the #1 goal.
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