Going back to 2018 i remember blueberry xtra being used alot and iirc Concord Grape by Capella getting the love.
From just about every review and description ive seen and read, it seems to be very blackcurrant forward and imo Inawera Blackcurrant is the most likely culprit.
DESCRIPTION
Capella Concord Grape Concentrate gives the authentically bright and sweet flavour of delicious purple concord grapes. On its own, this Capella concentrate gives a sweet and refreshing summery vape with its beautiful aroma of luscious purple grapes and it tastes much more natural than many other grape flavours, which can often taste artificial and more like a grape soda. This concentrate is slightly sweeter than Capella Grape and contains stevia extract to provide a natural sweetness. Capella Concord Grape Flavour Concentrate blends beautifully with many other fruit or beverage flavours, where it will add more depth to apple, blackcurrant or fruit cocktail DIY recipes or just try a straight mix with lemonade for a refreshing all day vape.
I have to admit Capella Concord is the least out of place but has to be in there low, But inawera blackcurrant…oh no, if that’s in there i’ll eat my hat, it’s so cordial and just plain wrong and even at .25% was not the one, not tasting any of that at all, it’s just not that sort of blackurrant. I will look into blueberry extra, I do have some.
have you tried TPA black currant?
its sort of a rorschak flavor thats hard to pin down, it dosen’t scream black current or anything. it could be kind of grapey its also very present yet subtle.
its not an amaZing flavor on its own but a great blender I needed it to clone Taste of gods by illusions vapor which is the reason i started DIY in the first place hehehe and there is no sub for it
Yes, iv’e tried that, it’s a really strange one that one, because it taste like something I would really want in the mix, because of that dark grapey thing it has but it kinda jellyfies things and also has a muting thing going on where it seems to shut down things like FA blackcurrant, have you found that? I just can’t seem to detect it in the original, but, it doesn’t mean it isn’t there, it’s just I’ve had to step back a little and ask myself, well, what do you think you can you disern, and go from there.
Have you tried FW razzleberry in any variations? This is something i havent seen you mention that very possibly could be in there? However, The strong smell of strawberry you described from the concentrate is making me think even more that FA forest fruit is in this eliquid? All i really smell when i sniff that is strawberry but with hints of other berries in there? Have you tried pushing forest fruit quite high?
I will see if i can get my hands on some of the black vine next month just to see if i can get to something at least a bit similar? If FA forest fruit is in there im pretty sure i would pick that out straight away anyway? I have used a LOT of this flavour in many different recipes, it has been one of my most used ingredients for many years & i have fully torture tested it right up to 24%.
You could well be right about FA Forest Fuit, It never really felt completely out of place, but I could never tell if that was because it shared some of the same ingredients/components as the original, It felt too bright to me and not dark enough, but on occasion I was almost positive that I could taste it in the original but was fleeting and distant, but I guess that could mean it’s taking a back seat to other darker flavours. I have used it as high as 10% and also in combination with harvest berry. This is one of those liquids that you sometimes get different things when you vape it.
I don’t have FW razzleberry, on the shopping list it goes!
This really does need other people to try it, If you only ever buy this once it’d be a nice treat for anyone that try’s it, I know most are DIYers through and through, would be nice though to bring this profile into the DIY realm.
I’m pretty chuft at the moment because I decided to try and find something else I really enjoy along side this clone attempt and after trying many different things I came across a strawberry milkshake recipe by DIYorDIE, I had to modify it to my taste and add a few other flavours but I can’t put it down, but Black Vine is still the holy grail.
Yet another pointer toward FA forest fruit right there, it has a pretty interesting quirk where it completely changes the way it tastes depending on % used vs wattage used vs actual temp of your coil etc (anyone remember the old “betty” clones? Then jai haze with his own version “rox”?), there are plenty other flavours that do this too but i think fa ff was pretty well known for this particular quirk.
Anyway just to show some recipes im working on until i can try black vine, heres a couple of “blind remixes” i have made so far, keep in mind that these are only based on descriptions & reviews so it probably wont be very accurate to the original? Its mostly built from your description though tbh because matching it to your palette is most important being as it is a remix for you mainly,lol.
This first one i have messed around with & tested quite a bit over a few weeks period & its really nice, i have it in my squonk bottle right now & i am actually happy with it as a recipe, just not sure where it stands compared to the og -
These are just 2 of the most recent iterations, i started with just fa blackcurrant, cap grape & fa fuji, then built out/added with each variation from there. That first recipe is really nice i would recommend trying if you do like blackcurrant/dark fruit flavours & you have the ingredients? You could probably sub the ssa ras/black for -
0.5% inw ras + 0.5%-0.75% tfa/cap b.berry & get a similar result?
Note this/these are not “finished” recipe/s yet, although it actually could be if it wasnt intended to be a remix? Depending where it stands to the black vine will determine wether i can push this into the original profile, or if i have to start from scratch? For that i will have to wait to try the OG (i will try it soon i promise😅)
EDIT - Another thing i have been thinking about is the sweetener used🤔, it could make a huge difference in a recipe just swapping from “super sweet” to “TFA sweetener” (sucralose+maltol), the maltol could really change the way a recipe vapes depending on what is in the other ingredients used? Just something else to think about? Next time i think im going to make 2 the same but use SS in one & TFA sweet in the other, see if theres any noticeable difference?
First off, it’s encouraging that you have gone for that ratio with the blackcurrants, it’s a conclusion I think I have come to as well, many recipes I have seen that use those two together are swapped in their ratios and I don’t think it’s correct for this. At the moment I am still trying to decipher whether DV Blackcurrant (Djinni Flavours) is a better fit, as it kinda tastes very similar to a mix of those flavours, but I’m hoping it’s not DV as i have more confidence In CAP an FA for reliability/availbility, though In my early opinion I think they are interchangable, but I have not explored this fully yet. You may find when you taste the original that the Concord grape is far too high, Iv’e not been able to get away with it that high without tasting an in your face grape, which black vine is not, unless of course that dragonfruit is emulsifying it down, which I haven’t fully tried or explored. I’m going to give your second recipe a go though.
When you exhale in a certain way, I think I am definitely tasting something along the lines of a meringue powered sugar sort of thing, very similar flavours them two, powered sugar of course being minus the egg. Being a UK juice, and the lack of coil gunking I am getting, leads me to believe that sucralose was not used and instead something like CAP Extra Sweet (Neotame) is in there. I can’t wait for you to try the original, will be fascinated to see what you make of it, I have a feeling you’re going to be able to pick certain things out very quickly, but also be surprised.
DV are still producing flavours just not under the decadent vapours company, they are very well known from way back in the UK eliquid/manufacturing scene, i think they just had to dismantle the DV company because of the “Vapours” in the name, they are now using an older “sister company/brand” under the name Djinni flavours, which i think was a brand for an old eliquid line years ago? But because theres no “vaping” association imbedded into that company now, they are able to use it as their new brand for DV concentrates?
This is all just what im piecing together from what i have read, mind.
& for the grape, it really doesnt taste like grape, i mean you can taste it a little bit for the first few days but it kinda backs off & just adds more “purple” into the mix rather than any major grape flavour, i think its a combination of the vanilla swirl + dragonfruit + fuji that sorta pull back/tone down the grape, its really nice mix though i have just refilled my squonk bottle with another 10ml of it,lol.
Still havent tested the second one i posted yet, i have quite a few other recipes of my own still in development too that i need to continue work on, some are also clones of uk eliquids & im actually really close too.
Will keep you updated on this black vine remix progress though & ill keep following this thread until we have a complete recipe👍.
Sounds absolutely fantastic, well, with my limited but ever growing experience I’ll continue to persue this myself and hopefully between us and whoever else, we’ll get there.
Decadent Vapours (Djinni) is a new one to me as I got into vaping only within the last few years, sounds like they’re pretty well respected players In the scene. Yeah we seeing a lot of this rebranding now aren’t we with what we got coming, It’s trying to remember who’s changed to what now lol
Hmmm🤔 lack of coil gunking? So with that we now know that ‘IF’ FA forest fruits is in there its quite low, i find forest fruit is pretty hard on coils when you go much further than 5/6%'ish.
& i would bet its TFAs sweetener in there too, which would also add to the “powdered sugar” texture you mention with the maltol + vanilla swirl (or even meringue would have a similar effect) but you still get that lift in vibrancy due to the sucralose? I dunno man id need to try it, it would be easy to spot CAP supersweet vs extra sweet vs TFA sweetener anyway.
CAP extra sweet kinda dulls down mixes for DL/sub-ohm setups though from what i have tried? I find it really works best in pod recipes or very “basey” custards or something, i think the extra sweet would completely ruin any vibrancy/brightnesstjuicyness etc you may get from the eliquid? (I am talking when pushed high enough to come close to commercial sweetness) If its utilized properly it could be made to work but i think you would have to alter the recipe a little to account for the extra sweet or at least add a little sucralose just to help lift everything “over” the extra sweet, if that makes sense?
I do appologise for my terrible explanations/grammar/general language skills (lack of) lol, it makes sense in my head i just struuggle translating it all into words/text so it makes sense universally .
Hey man, don’t apologise, mine is terrible and I didn’t do very well at school. I just overlook mistakes if I spot them at all and read on, I can understand everything you’re saying, so no worries.
The target flavour percentage I’m working to is 20% as they have stated that’s what they mix to, I don’t know if that makes any difference to what you’re talking about with the sweetener and dulling?
I basically just mean it would be pretty easy to spot extra sweet vs super sweet vs TFA sweetener (sucralose+maltol) in a recipe, they will all sweeten a recipe but, the outcomes would be slightly different in the way they vape/hit the senses/taste buds etc.
Super sweet would be more vibrant due to the higher sucralose % + citric acid.
Extra sweet leaves a nice subtle sweetness but can leave/enhance that powdery sugar texture (this has a very specific taste it leaves in mixes (for me at least) that is very easy to pick out, kinda like tasting a coke vs diet coke you know that specific taste thats easy to pick out that its diet coke?).
TFA sweetener would do something similar to the extra sweet with the maltol but with the added sucralose in TFA sweetener it would also lift those top notes ‘over’ that powdery sugar texture.
You can also use extra sweet + super sweet in smaller %'s to achieve a similar effect to TFA sweetener but it would be a little more aggressive with the sweetness (which you could control with %'s anyway).
Not trying to over complicate things, just pointing out that even the brand/type of sweetener used can affect the outcome of a recipe.
We will get to that once we have the core foundation close to the original.
Edit - & the sweetener is included in the total %, so if they do use 20% total, some of that 20% will be whatever seeetener he used?
2nd Edit - Damn, i dont even have extra sweet anymore (or i cant find it anyway), i do have neotame though i will try in one of the next variations & i will also try TFA sweetener.
No not at all, it’s very interesting to think about and ultimately stuff I have to get to grips with.
yeah, I took it to mean everything included in that 20%
I was just wondering with that percentage whether they are compensating for dulling effects of sweeteners used, I myself have come to associate neotame sweeteners with pod recipes but wasn’t really sure because of UK regulation whether this extended to other subohm liquids.
I also wonder whether I’m not seeing coil gunking for a few different reasons, one is that I heard Jay doesn’t like to overuse sweeteners, the other maybe my setup, I vape at 100w on my own dual 6 turn frailiens 2x28/6x0.3 36g and I space my coils meaning not only do I get faster ramp up times, I get faster ramp down times, so juice isn’t sitting there cooking for long after I finish a pull, as bunched up coils act like a block of thermal mass that takes longer to cool down.
Yeah, that’s the really annoying thing about this whole endeavour is not being able to have enough people try the original. Hopefully at some point we’ll have a good clone and that’ll be a way you can try it, or something close at least.
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