You said pg manufacturers don’t say what kind of pg you get, mine does.
@Plunderdrum you see this PG ??
Sorry, couldn’t read the label, but happy to take your word for it. Not surprised. I wasn’t thinking of the PG that we (don’t) buy for ourselves, but rather of the countless other sources of PG, that @Plunderdrum and I would be (not altogether successfully) trying to avoid. That is, where Pg appears as an ingredient , or ingredient of an ingredient .
Btw, that’s by no means limited to vape juice and concentrates (though that’s the big concern on this forum ofc). It’s also in numerous foods, medicines , cosmetics, cleaning fluids, hair spray, nasal spray, inhalers, air fresheners, you name it. In most of those instances it would take some painstaking research to find out what the PG therein was derived from, or even if they contained PG at all (eg when it appears as an ingredient of an ingredient)
So, all in all, controlling your exposure to PG is a pretty difficult task, and keeping track of what ""kind " of PG you’ve been exposed to is just about impossible. PG is PG is PG, after all. The crucial difference (if such exists) would be in the impurities.
ummm. sorry @Nicotine_River , I’m afraid I have a bigger question.
I just looked at the picture on your website, and saw that it says “PG based” on the bottle. What gives? Pure MF are definitely not PG-based. indeed some of us started up with MF on account of PG-allergy , so this question really matters.
I suspect that’s just a labelling error? but I don’t want to just assume as much.
This will be changed by tomorrow once we get our team to make the changes.
OoH heck. sorry to be a flaming nuisance @Nicotine_River but that ingredient list on your website is all wrong, too. I mean totally wrong.
Ingredients: Extract from Co2, Natural and Artificial Flavor. Additives (e.g. carriers, preservatives, antioxidants): PG
There was definitely no artificial flavour in MF, last I checked . And these are not only natural , but organic. That’s surely worth mentioning?
Aso, my bottles of MF in my fridge say "NO ADDITIVES" on their labels, in bold. (I just checked, to be sure)
(BTW I got that list from the Raspberry Flavor page, but I imagine its the same for them all?)
“Our flavors are cold-processed using extraction without the use of any colorants, fillers, diluting agents or preservatives.”
" Ingredient: genuine flavor extract*
*Apricot, Bergamot, White Cherry, Pink Grapefruit, Lemon, Lime, Mandarin, Orange and Rum flavors require additional alcohol extraction and may contain up to 5% residual grain alcohol."
This all seems very strange. I’m still thrilled that you’re carrying MF, just confused how so much incorrect info came with the roll-out.
Hello, we based all of our ingredient wording off of the SDS’s that were provided to us by Medicine Flower. However, we will still be making the adjustments to the labels tomorrow stating that they are water soluble instead so that it doesn’t cause any confusion!
Also, we will be rechecking the SDS’s to confirm that there are no typos or incorrect placements of words to be accounted for!
Well, that’s disturbing! Thank you for the update.
I’ll be calling MF soon to get the what-the-heck-is-the-meaning-of-this figured out!
Sorry for my poor camera skills
Here’s a link with a description, I’m sure your chrome will be happy to translate it for you
" Neutral base 100% of plant origin , made in France and composed of:
- Mono Propylene Glycol plant EP Ecocert from rapeseed / corn,"
This thought crossed my mind as well. Holding all further speculation until we hear from MF directly. Lots of speculation embedded in the thread. I’m confident that we’ll get some straight answers when Alysia(sp?) jumps in here.
On a different note…Kai’s Virgin Vapor might need to read this thread… I’m 99% sure they use MF and NF.
Hell yeah, It’s an open secret that they use MF.
Sorry for more speculation, but i think the problem here is that, for whatever reason, people have had it firmly lodged in their brains that PG is a petroleum product. And when people have banged on about PG allergy , they’ve geberally bought that asumption hook, line and sinker and declared that’s the reason why PG is bad for your health. " It’s a petroleum product! It’s used as an antifreeze in cars! Stop vaping antifreeze, people! it’s unnatural. Can’t be good for you. " Of course, people laughed at that "“logic”, but nobody laughed at the outdated idea that PG is a petroleum product. That was simply accepted as a fact by all and sundry.
Enter organic flavours and juices. If they were adding petroleum products to their product, they could not, by law, describe them as organic. Therefore they dont contain PG. QED. Totally logical!
I mean that one false assumption could all-so-easily have led to the other, without anybody troubling to check.
Now, one question i’ve been desperately trying to ask is : can we please all reconsider that assumption that petroleum based PG , and petroleum based PG alone cause PG allergy? because. so far as i can tell , it’s grounded in nothing at all but that same old original false assumption. It might happen to be true, but can we please accept that it’s unfounded, and that we don;t actually know?
& @Suomynona - Gracious!
My emoji icon doesn’t work… apparently, it works if I start the process with eyes : then if I use a smile or frown )
Yep, and I’m very much hoping that the system finally shuffles the posts in this thread and the other one (Medicine Flower Suppliers) back into the right order before we get the visit from MF royalty! @woftam was confident (-ish) that would happen eventually, but i’m seriously beginning to doubt it.
I think I should note that here that my confidence in MF is such that I was definitely not deterred from posting their latest sale in the proper thread.
On the allegen front, gotta say that if (as I suppose) it’s not the PG itself causing reactions when vaped, but rather the impurities in it (which would vary with source) then this verges on homeopathic concentations -in this instance- doesn’t it?
I mean, how big a % of that PG would consist in impurities? 1% ? less? (That would vary with manufacturer , ofc, and I imagine that MF’s ingredients would be at the purest end of the scale)
Then we’re adding , what? maybe 1% of that 1% to our juice. Not to mention that the PG is mixed with other ingredients, ofc, . so we’ve got further dilution on that account.
So, it could be that we’ll be ""lucky’’ to get one single stray offending molecule in any given puff, couldn’t it?
Ofc that’s not to say that stray molecule couldn’t cause havoc with the hypersensitive. nor that it couldn’t serve to sensitise folk when encountered on a regular basis (which is actually my biggest concern). But I do want to put this into perspective
I’m stearing clear of speculation!
I don’t blame you ofc, maybe we;re getting ten molecules per puff, or even zero molecules once the actual figures roll in …and once we know what’s really to blame for our PG reactionsm (if we ever do) But if it ain’t the actual PG molecules (which are surely the same regardless the source of the PG) then it;s impurities.
So we can change the figures in the light of hard info, but that above logic tells us that we’re talking of extremely weak concentrations here, just on the basis that we;re diluting MF considerably (fact) and MF is highly concentrated (fact) thus contains loads of flavour molecules , not leaving much room for PG.
Basically , i wanna reassure Alysia that we;re not looking at a mammoth problem here, just something totally unexpected which might turn out to be pretty damned signifant to a few of us.
EDIT: @delltrapp is definitely using the likes as placemarkers. I just caught him liking this post the very second I posted it . Gotcha!!!
Update regarding Alysia here is a email I received this morning …
Thank you for the invite.
I will have to jump on beginning of next week.
Access to internet for the next 3 days will be in and out.
Thank you so much for including me in the thread.
I will look forward to sharing with everyone.