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Diketones, Oils, Sugars, GMO – All-in-one page: FA, TPA, FLV, CAP, FW, LB, etc


#1

Note: this is not a thread about whether Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl (DAAP) are safe for vaping or not. You may find good information about that elsewhere. It is about (1) how transparent companies are – do they share information about these ingredients to their customers publicly and about (2) levels of these ingredients in their flavorings, so diketone-concerned vapers can find information they need.
 

There are two reasons for this post:
(1) to help vapers find basic information about levels of diketones, oils, syrups in flavors of different companies on a single page; it’s easier to find anything and to compare flavors of different manufacturers.
(2) to help make companies become more transparent regarding the use of diketones, oils, sugars, syrups, GMO, aspartame, etc. Some vapers want to avoid those ingredients, so why not give all the info if there’s nothing to hide?
 



Note: 6 most popular DIY companies are highlighted for easy finding.

Note that any information in this thread is not final; there may be mistakes and when new information is found, then info above will be changed based on new findings. I hope non-transparent companies will soon realize that hiding information about these ingredients is not beneficial for their business.

Note: i am using neutral icon :no_mouth: when talking about DAAP levels to avoid dilemma whether those are safe ingredients or not.
 

TFA/TPA – The Flavor / Perfumer Apprentice

:blush: Full disclosure of what’s in their flavorings may help vapers who are allergic to some other ingredients used in flavorings.
:no_mouth: No Diacetyl in any of their flavors
:no_mouth: Their new DX line contains zero A-AP.
:no_mouth: Extremely high levels of A-AP in some of their flavors (Butter, Coconut Extra)
:rage: They provide range and not exact numbers (Acetoin <=1%, which could be either 10ppm or 10,000ppm).
:rage: Caramel contains corn syrup (more info here)

Note: shown are only flavors with the highest levels of A or AP (over 10,000 ppm = 1%).

You can find more info about each of their flavors here:
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=600-14-6 – flavors with AP (40+ flavors)
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=513-86-0 – flavors with A (60+ flavors)
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx - all flavors
 

MBV - Mt. Baker Vapor

:blush: The most complete information about ingredients and possible allergies that each ingredient separately may cause
:blush: Full information about oils, acids, acetates, butyrates, aldehydes, etc in their flavorings
:no_mouth: No Diacetyl in any of their flavorings
:no_mouth: High levels of A-AP in some of their flavorings
:rage: No information about ingredients in their Limited Edition concentrates


Listed are all flavors that contain some levels of A/AP.

Full information about ingredients is great news for vapers who are allergic to particular ingredients (they may finally find out what ingredient is causing those allergies).

Mt. Baker Vapor Safety Data Seets are here and their website is here.
 

FLV – Flavorah

:blush: Full documentation about levels of DAAP in their flavors
:blush: Additional information about other ingredients such as Butyric Acid, Ethyl Alcohol, etc.
:no_mouth: Very low levels of diketones
:no_mouth: They do not add Diacetyl or Acetyl Propionyl to any of their products.
:no_mouth: Diacetyl in some flavors is formed naturally during the flavor extraction process* (but it still is Diacetyl).

Note: Shown are only flavors with more than 1,000 ppm of A/AP.

FLV flavorings are mostly super concentrates which result in very low amounts of diketones in your mixes (Coconut for example contains 2,800 ppm of Acetoin and 187 of Diacetyl and when you use it at 1% in your mixes, this results in 28 ppm of Acetoin in your vaping liquid = 0.0028% and 2ppm of Diacetyl). The same is with super concentrated flavorings of other companies (RealFlavors SC below for example has also only one flavor where levels of A/AP are over 25ppm in your vaping liquid).

*Acetoin can oxidise into traces of diacetyl under certain conditions (at FLV this was shown during lab testings, but note that it may happen with flavorings of other companies as well). If you are at all concerned about this as yet unquantifiable risk, please select from the other flavourings, but please remember, this isn’t an indication that any one flavouring is more or less “safe” than any other - no long term or comprehensive studies have yet been performed on human ingestion of vaporised food flavourings.

More info about diketons in their flavors: www.flavorah.com/safety/
 

CdV - Creme de Vape

:blush: Very transparent information about ingredients in their flavorings, including possible allergens!
:no_mouth: NO Diacetyl and NO Acetyl Propionyl in any of their flavorings
:rage: Information about Acetoin levels is provided in range and not exact numbers
:rage: Caramel flavor contains Corn Syrup and Chocolate (White) contains Caramelised Sugar.

Note: These are all flavorings where Acetoin was found (all other flavors are completely DAAP free)

More info on their website
 

TW – Totally Wicked

:blush: Independently tested by a third company’s lab in Athens under a regime specified by Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos.
:no_mouth: All flavors are D-A-AP Free!

More info on their website.
 

FA – Flavour Arts

:blush: Their flavors don’t contain any sugars, protein, genetic modified ingredients, animal ingredients of any kind, preservatives, sweeteners and colors. Their flavors are all gluten and peanut free.
:blush: Their ClearStream and other researches prove that they are one of the most concerned and trusted companies.
:no_mouth: All their ‘safe’ flavors are DAAP free
:blush: Lab tests reports are finally available for all their flavors, including for ‘unsuitable for vaping’ flavors…
:rage: …but sadly the company does not support customers ‘Right-to-know’ (lab tests not published on their official website).

 

The information on their website is quite confusing and they cannot list their vaping and kitchen flavors separately due to legal reasons (blame regulators, not a company for that). Here is how you can find everything:

FA’s official site is here (all flavorings listed).
Find out which their vaping flavors are here (all D/AP testings are there as well; about 130 flavors).

Any flavors not on that list are NOT suitable for vaping. This includes flavors like Butter, Cream Whipped, Milk, Pandoro, and about 30 other flavors. You can find these flavors here. FA says those flavors are some oil-based flavourings, and some that contain ingredients which are deemed unsuitable for vaping (their researchers are one of the best in the industry, so it is probably cool to avoid those flavorings for vaping).

 

Update Dec 2017:
FA finally provided some fresh lab test reports; sadly they don’t publish those on their website where customers could find them easily (a big minus; why not show them in a customer-friendly format?).
Lab reports prove that none of their ‘safe’ flavors contain Acetoin (so all those flavors are DAAP free). It seems D-A-AP ingredients can be found only in the following flavors:

fa

Notes:
Butter and Premium Custard have the highest level of Diacetyl among all flavors of the companies above. FA explicitly says these flavors are ‘unsuitable for vaping’, but no doubt some will go crazy about this flavor just because of that. :astonished:

Premium Custard (Crema Pasticerra; full of D) is not the same as their regular Custard (that one has no diketones).

Some lab test results for some of their flavors are missing (Mozarella, Milk).

 

UMB - Umba Vape

:no_mouth: Lab test results are showing all their regular flavors are D-A-AP free.*
:blush: Certificate of Analysis is confirming that virtually no tobacco-specific nitrosamines exist in their e-liquids.

*Note: Their regular blends contain no DAAP, however they also offer two premium liquids: Chill Menthol (no test results yet) and True Tobacco (contains up to 100ppm of D and A). Thx @threeheavens for the update.

You can find more info on their website.
 

FM – Flavor Monks

:no_mouth: They say they don’t use D-A-AP or alcohol in their products!
:blush: They don’t use colorants.
:rage: They don’t provide any lab test reports.

Their website is here.
 

LQ – LiQuid

:no_mouth: They say ‘We don’t use ANY flavoring that contain Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin’.
:blush: They say they don’t use dyes or colorings and they don’t use oil based flavourings.
:blush: All their e-liquids are £1 per 10ml bottle
:rage: They don’t provide any lab test reports.

More information on their website. Some reviews about their flavors can be found here.
 

AMEA - Aromea

:no_mouth: They say ‘All our products are paraben-free, diacetyl-free, ambrox-free, propionyl-free, acetoin-free and ethyl alcohol free’.
:blush: They don’t add water, coloring and alcohol in their flavorings.
:rage: They don’t provide any lab test reportss.

Their 150 DIY flavors are here and here is their ‘Crazy Up’ and ‘The Beach’ collection.
 

COR - Corsica Vap

:no_mouth: They say all their flavors are DAAP-free and CMR (Carcinogen – Mutagen – Reprotoxin) free.
:rage: They don’t provide any lab test reports.

You can find 160 of their DIY flavorings here and their 100+ one shot concentrates are here.
 

MB – Molinberry

:blush: Full documentation to each flavor supported with testing reports
:blush: No colorants or preservatives and all flavors are GMO free
:no_mouth: All flavors are Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl free and…
:no_mouth: …they are using the industry’s lowest amounts of Acetoin in their flavors

Note: Very low levels of Acetoin were found in 6 flavors only (all other flavorings are completely DAAP free).

More info on their website.
 

EF – Euro Flavor

:blush: They provide clear information about DAAP levels in their flavorings, COA, SDS
:no_mouth: Low levels of diketones in their flavors
:rage: DAAP information of some new flavors is missing.

ef

Large majority of their 100+ flavors is DAAP free. Table shows flavors that contain 50+ ppm of D-A-AP

Flavors with a high level of Acetyl Propionyl or Acetoin are currently being reformulated to meet the requirements of the European Union Tobacco Product Directive (EUTPD)

Euro Flavor website; DAAP info
 

RF - Real Flavors

:blush: Transparent information about diketones provided on their website
:blush: All flavors are tested at least once every six months, while wholesale orders of 5 gallons or more are tested at the time of production.
:blush: @Walt_RealFlavors available on this forum; handy to have a support on a forum
:no_mouth: No Diacetyl in any of their flavors

Note: Listed are flavors with more than 1000ppm.

They say ‘Testing done at recommended usage levels’ (testing mixed juice, not liquid in a bottle). Since recommended usage levels are 1-2.5%, their ‘less than 25ppm’ means up to 1000-2500ppm.

Find more info on their website. (thx Mattp169)
 

LB – Liquid Barn

:blush: Good information about diketones on their website
:blush: They also provide information about Ethyl Alcohol and about levels of VG/PG used in each of their flavors
:no_mouth: None of their flavors have added Diacetyl.
:no_mouth: High level of AP in one flavor (Vanilla Ice Cream 3.5%)

Note: Shown are only flavors with more than 1000 ppm of A/AP.

Find more info about diketones in their flavors here.
 

OoO – One on One

:blush: Full transparency about DAAP levels in their flavorings
:no_mouth: None of their 450+ flavors have added Diacetyl.
:no_mouth: High levels of Acetoin in some flavors (Sweet Cream 6.7%)

Note: Shown are only flavors with more than 10,000 ppm (1%) of A/AP.
Their bestseller Cream (Milky Undertone) contains 2,163 ppm of Acetoin (0.21%), 0 AP

Detailed info about diketones in their flavors can be found here.
 

CAP – Capella

:blush: Capella Flavor Drops use no Sugar, Splenda, Saccharine, Aspartame, Caffeine, Sodium, Potassium Sorbate or Animal ingredients of any kind.
:blush: They provide DAAP testing results for most of their flavors in an easy-to-read format, but…
:rage: …their provide very limited DAAP information for their v1 flavors
:no_mouth: They say ‘We do not use Diacetyl in ANY of our flavorings’.

cap

Info about their diketone-free flavors is here

You can check higher amounts of ingredients in their v1 flavors here (including Butyric Acid and other). Bad news is that they released only information they had to due to legal reasons and not as an information for their customers. (hiding levels of ingredients below 10.000ppm for example; absolutely no information about Acetoin levels in any of their v1 flavorings). It is a bad practice and not very customer friendly, but still better than dozens of other manufacturers who are hiding all the information (why not releasing the DAAP information in an easy-to-read format for customers like they did for their v2 flavors???)
 

DEL – Delosi (Nicotine Labs)

:blush: There is an information about A/AP on their NicotineLabs website…
:rage: … but there is ZERO information about diketones on the official Delosi website
:no_mouth: None of their flavors have added Diacetyl or artificial coloring.
:no_mouth: Only seven of their flavors contain A/AP (and they say they are in process of removing A/AP from these remaining 7 flavors)
:rage: No testing reports, no info about what their Not Detected (ND) limit was

Find more info at nicotinelabs.com or delosi.com
 

FW – Flavor West

:blush: They don’t hide levels of A/AP in their flavors
:blush: They provide additional info about other ingredients in their flavors, such as Triacetin, Ethanol, artificial coloring
:no_mouth: They don’t use diacetyl anymore (based on independent lab testings)
:no_mouth: High levels of Acetoin in some flavors
:rage: Bad reputation for lying about diacetyl in their flavors a few years ago
:rage: They use syrup and sugars in many of their flavors (more info here)

My opinion: Other flavor companies use questionable ingredients yet do not get near the heat that Flavor West does. Regardless of the past, after FW published their reports and changed their flavors i could say i trust them more than companies, who don’t release any info about their flavors publicly.

Listed are ONLY flavours with more than 10,000 ppm (>1%) of Acetoin.

You can find more info about flavorings with diketones here.
 

OSDIY – One Stop Flavors

:rage: Flavors were analysed only for D & AP, but not for Acetoin
:rage: Their lab test reports are 3 years old.

osdiy

Note: Shown are only flavors with more than 100 ppm of D/AP.

More info is here.
 

AL - AtmosLab

:no_mouth: They say their flavors do not contain any D/AP…
:rage: …but they don’t provide any lab test reports on their website and no information about Acetoin is found.
:blush: Their eliquids, bases and flavours that do not contain any allergens and are gluten free, sugar free, GMO free and Nitrosamine-free.
:blush: Their Tobacco e-liquids are Pesticides free.
:blush: They work closely with Toxicology Labs of Medical School in University of Thessaly and Crete and they regularly perform toxicological analysis that go far beyond standard examination (TSNA, PAH, heavy metals, pesticides).
:blush: They use only the purest raw materials, far beyond pharma grade purity: VG (99.9%), PG (99.7%) and nicotine (99.9%)

Atmos Lab is the first ecig manufacturer in the world performed Chemical Analysis for Pesticides’ Residue in Eliquids with Tobacco flavours and all their Tobacco Flavoured Eliquids are Pesticides free.
 

NV - NicVape

:no_mouth: They say their e-liquid flavors are D-AP free.
:rage: No information about Acetoin in their flavors
:blush: Customers have an access to NicTrace™, a lot/batch number tracking system, where they can view view all lab analysis and testing results (CoA) from an independent (third-party) certified laboratory.

More info on their website.
 

LA – LorAnn (Lauren)

:blush: They provide information which flavorings contain nut and dairy allergens
:no_mouth: No public reports yet, but they say they are not adding any Diacetyl to their flavors
:rage: Several flavors contain oils, which are very bad for vaping.
:rage: Several flavors contain artificial colorings, which are best to avoid.

Be sure to check this table (note: it’s not LorAnn’s official and several flavors are missing here).
 

DV – Decadent Vapours

:no_mouth: NO Diacetyl and NO Acetyl Propionyl in any of their 150+ flavors
:rage: NO information about Acetoin in their flavors

More info on their website.

Note: They had their lab test reports shown on their website, but they removed them (Aug 2017). I assume they are preparing new transparent information about DAAP levels in their flavors for their customers.
 

VV – Kai’s Virgin Vapor

:blush: They say their e-liquids do not contain any artificial flavorings, artificial colors, artificial sweeteners or any other additives.
:blush: Their e-liquids are also vegan, GMO-free and contain no sugar or gluten.
:no_mouth: They say their flavors do not contain any D/AP…
:rage: …but they don’t provide any lab test reports.
:rage: We have no idea how much Acetoin is in any of their flavors.

Info on their website is confusing. They say ‘‘Always insist on laboratory testing rather than relying on a flavor manufacturer’s word’’, but they themselves do not provide any lab testing reports publicly, even thought they say “We have Certificates of Analysis showing all of our flavors to be free of these (DAAP) compounds with a detection limit of 0.1 parts per million”. Why don’t they publicly release their lab results showing zeros then?

More info on their website.
 

VO - Vape Organics (Pure Organic Vapors)

:no_mouth: All Vape Organics e-liquids are completely free of synthetic chemical additives like diacetyl and acetyl propionyl *.
:blush: All Vape Organics e-liquids are completely free of propylene glycol, GMOs, artificial sweeteners, and synthetic chemical additives & pesticides.
:rage: They don’t provide any information about levels of Acetoin in their flavors.

*Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl can also be naturally-occurring and there are some traces in two of their flavors: Peanut Brittle and Mango Mystique have naturally-occurring levels of diacetyl below 5PPM and 10PPM, respectively.

Vape Organics is the first company to offer USDA certified organic e-liquid. Furthermore, Vape Organics produces the first and only certified organic nicotine, exclusive to their e-juice.

They exclusively use premium, natural extracts rather than artificial flavorings and the tobacco used in their e-juices was not cultivated with the use of any synthetic pesticides, including insect-killers, weed-killers and plant growth regulators.
 

GS – Get Sucred

:no_mouth: Their flavors do not contain any Diacetyl.
:blush: They say which flavors contain A and AP.
:blush: They provide information which flavors are artificial and which are natural.
:rage: They don’t provide any numbers and lab test reports.
 


 

:-1: The following companies you should avoid if you care about diketones. :-1:

They didn’t release any public report about diketones in their flavors, they either refuse giving any info or they say they will provide any MSDS sheets on a flavor if you email them (which is absolutely not enough; somehow i would rather see them publicly commit themselves with those reports, which they want to send me; also MSDS sheets often don’t give any information at all about DAAP levels).

:rage: . BF – Baker Flavors
:rage: . CC – Chef’s Choice
:rage: . CdD – Club der Dampfen
:rage: . CCW – CupCake World
:rage: . DIYFS – DIY Flavor Shack
:rage: . FE – Flavors Express
:rage: . FR – Flavor Revolution
:rage: . GF – German Flavors
:rage: . HG – Hangsen
:rage: . HGD – Hangda
:rage: . INW – Inawera
:rage: . JF – Jungle Flavors
:rage: . MF – Medicine Flower (Lotus Flavors)
:rage: . M&P – Mom and Pop’s
:rage: . NF – Nature’s Flavors
:rage: . PUR – Purilum
:rage: . SA - Solub Arome
:rage: . VZ – Vaping Zone
:rage: . WF – Wonder Flavours
 


 

! ! ! Sugars, Syrups, etc

www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/wiki/sugars

 

! ! ! Sucralose (SPLENDA)

Link (thx iVapeDIY)
 

! ! ! Furfuryl Alcohol

This is another example why transparency is in every vaper’s interest. Fortunately we have a fully transparent company like TFA to get those info (note: we have no idea IF and at what levels Furfuryl Alcohol is present in flavorings of other companies).

Furfuryl Alcohol is used in these TPA flavors

@Daath’s thread. @Batboy141 says it’s a major risk here. Reddit thread here.

Furfuryl alcohol was added to California’s Proposition 65 list of carcinogens last year Link
 


 
Final thoughts (my opinion below):

We have two types of companies:
(1) those who have nothing to hide and who publicly provide all the information to their customers. Their stance may help make vaping even safer in the future and these companies are beneficial for vaping community in the future.
(2) Those who don’t publicly provide any info about diketones and/or harmful substances used in their flavors (ignoring their customers). If a company can’t find benefits of sharing information with their consumers publicly, then a message is clear = we don’t want any transparency, we don’t want to show what you are vaping, we don’t want to take any responsibility for your vaping our products.

I should explicitly say that i am not a diketone gestapo and this is not i-hate-diketones thread (it is about transparency and about levels of DAAP in their flavorings). Personally, i am using many flavors with diketones and hardly any of my mixes is DAAP free. Overall i’m much more concerned about oils, sugars, syrups, aspartame, artificial flavoring, GMO in my flavorings.

But still i wish companies will soon become more transparent about the ingredients in their flavors and stop hiding things / ignoring their customers. A flavor full of diketones may not be damaging at all, but the attitude of hiding things and non-transparent policy IS always poisonous (not just for individuals, but for the whole industry, for the public opinion, for the regulators, for those who fear, etc, not just in vaping industry, but overall). This ignorance makes me questioning about what are they hiding? Could i trust them and their products if they themselves don’t trust their products enough to speak about them publicly?
 


 
How can we help make vaping even safer?

For me, reportings about DAAP levels, oils, sugars, corn syrup, aspartame, GMO are a must and that’s why my ratings will always be 1/5 stars for non-transparent products. I can imagine that when dozens of vapers will do the same, all those companies will be forced to become more transparent due to under-average ratings / lower sells / bad reputation and they will finally stop ignoring their customers.

More importantly, this may make vaping even safer in the future (before Diacetyl fun club attacks this sentence… we all know what garbage was in liquids in the past and how much better it is now; the industry was forced to change; this wouldn’t happen without some transparency and public awareness and we would still be vaping oils, sugars and added Diacetyl, right?). And if it’s even safer and more transparent, then voice of vapers can be heard even more (maybe resulting in less regulations and gaining better public opinion).

Transparency is driving changes, helps finding new and better solutions faster and it is always good for users (not just for vaping, but also for food, chemical and all other industries).

I’m looking forward to any other information about flavors / manufacturers / reports. Also, there’s quite some text and poorly worded information - please inform me about those; together we can make the overall information much more useful. Thx.
 

Disclaimer: I am is NOT affiliated in any manner with any company mentioned herein. This report and comparisons discussed are intended solely for information purposes. I cannot guarantee the validity of the information found in this thread. The content of any given information or company may be incomplete, recently changed, vandalized or altered.

The content and references to manufacturers, their products or transparency are provided “as is” without warranties of any kind, either express or implied. No written information or advice given will create a warranty and you may not rely on any such information or advice. Any use of this information is at your own risk. If you need specific advice, please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area.


Critique my Newby First Order. PART TWO
#2

Pentine? Is that you?


#3

Thanks for this great post. I may use some flavors with dike-tones/ap etc but I DO like to be fully aware of what is contained in the flavoring no matter. I do try to avoid these substances as much as possible so I believe this is a great resource to reference for future flavor purchases. :+1:


#4

Super informative. Thanks for putting this together and sharing.

I’m not concerned about diketones, but I know some people are and it’ll be really helpful for them to have access to all of this info in one place.

Transparency is certainly appreciated, but we have to remember that many of these companies were (and still are primarily) food flavors long before the DIY e-liquid community repurposed them for vaping.


#5

I mean no offense when I say this… But I hope I don’t lose my Diketones!

I understand some people don’t want them, but I do. I hope it doesn’t become an issue, where companies think nobody wants them and stops using em.

Anywho, just my two pence. :sunglasses:


#6

For starters, *VERY" nice job on the compilation and organization of all of this!!

However, at a quick glance, I notice a couple of things.

I would amend this to some customers., as I’m no longer one of the ones (and haven’t been for a year+ now) on the “caution train”. (no disrespect to those who choose to be). I personally prefer having a better flavor over Butyric Acid. But that’s all it is. A personal preference. Companies should not be choosing for us, they should be providing both options.

Which brings me nicely into the next topic to address.

You need sources for some of these “observations” in my opinion. Or at least, that’s what I’d prefer.

If what you say above (no idea where you saw or heard it) is true…then FW is in for a world of hurt IMO, as if they go changing flavors removing all the “fear factor” components (D/A/AP), a LOT of flavors are highly likely to take a nose dive.

Again, thanks for an excellent and time consuming effort! Well done!


#7

I fully agree, i dont own a single DX or CAP V2 flavoring and wont be buying any. BTA is horrible smelling and it doesnt have to. It is also not creamy enough, IMO. Many of Real Flavor creams are fantastic tasting and smelling but need help. This appears to be the future and it suxs.

@Mikser, fantastic post and very well done. Thanks for posting!


#8

The general trend is that Dike-tones etc are of no concern. I have been on the fence for a while on the issue. A few years back I had a vanilla custard juice that gave me sharp pains in my lungs so I bought into the hype a little bit and have tried to avoid them. Just wondering if there is some new evidence showing that the amounts of Dtones/Ap/Ac are nothing to be concerned about? Or is the decision based on the flavor being so good that its worth the risk?


#9

Speaking strictly for myself…
We’re not going to have any real scientific data (read as: statistical proof, not just hypotheticals or preliminary findings) for years, and possibly decades on the truth of it all. And given how slanted the American media has become the last couple of decades, coupled with the fact that arguments can be bought for either side…

Think back (if you’re old enough lol). For a good while, everyone was all “Eggs are bad for you!” Then a few years go by after a silence on that campaign… And the next wave hits with a new “Eggs are great for you!” campaign. :roll_eyes:
There’s just so much bullshit anymore, you really do (more than ever) have to just read all you can, weigh it out for yourself, and go with your gut.

It all really boils down to one simple question for me. Do I feel it’s better than smoking??

YES Resoundingly, absolutely, and unequivocally!

Everyone has the right to their own view, as it’s their own health, welfare, and safety in concern. But just like there’s different levels/types of fitness/exercise (strength vs endurance, conditioning, etc) there should be room for all types here. YMMV

Now, if something does give you physical issues, then listen to your body and adjust accordingly!
There’ve been a couple of flavors that I’ve had to 86 due to causing a slightly nauseated feeling, or headache, but I’ve tried the same flavor in another brand and had no issue. So… Don’t lump them all together thinking “I can’t handle Custard” or such, but “do take notice of what ails you” as my grandpaw used to say! :wink:


#10

I totally understand where you are coming from and am of a familiar train of thought. Maybe that juice I had was bad? It made my lungs hurt faster in 5 minutes than smoking stinkies for 15 years ever did. And like I said I do mix with flavors containing dike/ap/ac. I just got skeptical after that juice made my lungs hurt so bad and have tried to avoid them for that reason. For me that juice in particular was far worse than analogs. I have some cap v1 custard coming in to try. :crossed_fingers:

That was also right around the time the Diketone issue blew up in the vaping community.


#11

Thx mate. Both are fixed now. You’re completely right about the first thing and i changed the second based on what they do advertise on their website. It is a better information now, than it was before. There are probably dozens of other mistakes or poorly worded information and i hope we together will make all these info even more useful. Please let me know for any others. Thx.


#12

What a fantastic amount of work you’ve put into this! :smiley:


#13

Thx mate. I hope companies will release info about Butyric Acid as well (transparency!!!). So far only TPA did this.

Since you’re talking about RF… I’ll be in a buying process soon - what flavor would you suggest if i can buy only one RF? Never tried any yet. I’ve heard good things about their SB, but i was thinking more about Cookies & Cream… any good or which other flavor would you suggest? One only please, best of the best. Thx.


#14

Nope. But i think Pentine will like this post. :slight_smile:


#15

Wow! This is amazing! You obviously put a lot of hard work and effort into it! I applaud your effort :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Personally, I have been avoiding doing my research about the effects of these things. I know that I should be reading up and making decisions about the risks I am taking. I know that I am better off than smoking a pack/day and so that in itself is a big reason for not doing it! But your post really makes me realize how much I should be looking into this stuff.

Thank you again for your hard work! It is such a big contribution to the community here!


#16

Well, im just going to be honest here and please understand that i do not work for or get paid by RF, i just love what Walt does.

My personal favorite is the Black Label French Vanilla, it is fantastic on its own or in a mix. Some might think it is a bit pricey at $30/2oz. BUT it is quite potent, ive used it in the .5-1.25% range with very good results. Also the lab reports arent in on it yet but i would guess that there are some diketones as it is extracted from real vanilla bean.

It is in my top 5 favorite flavorings list. Of course we all like different things so what i enjoy another might not.

After the BL FV i dont think that i could choose just one so ill narrow it down a bit:

Cinnamon Custard: The mouth feel needs a bit of help but the cinnamon is incredible in this.

Strawberry: Very real SB, one of my favs. Some have reported flavor loss with curing but i havent experienced it.

Pineapple: This is my favorite pineapple to date and i have tried a LOT of them.

Yumberry: A member of the boysenberry family but i find it a bit brighter than a boysenberry.

On Cookies & Cream, ive only vaped a 10ml sample and while it was very tasty im not much into vaping chocolate. However, my wife mixes with it and loves it.

This is one of the reasons i still use their flavorings, to avoid doubling or tripling up on a certain chemical. Also its nice to know whats in them so that one can make educated decisions, i wish the rest would follow their example.

Sorry for all the words, i bet yer sorry that you asked a question now, eh? hehehe


#17

Hmm. Someone should really compare this information with our warning list:

http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavors/warnlist

:slight_smile:

I like when they disclose which flavors has diketones in them - that way I know which ones to get :smiley:


#18

That’s why i felt this information might be so useful. It’s for both, those who want to avoid diketones and it’s perfect for those who are searching for more diketones (and for everyone in between). :grinning: I hope companies are reading this as well since it seems we all want some more transparency! :grinning:

Regarding the warning list. You may update your list with OoO warnings now (they released their reports recently; can find a link above). Otherwise, your warning list is quite accurate; in all this time i found just a couple of less known flavors with diketones that don’t have a warning sign placed, so that’s nearly perfect for those who wish to avoid diketones.

@Ken_O_Where. Chefs doesn’t hold Black Label FV, so i’ll just pick one of the fruits. Thx.


#19

#20

Yeah I have to lean toward the WGAS crowd, or at the very least, the I too like to live dangerously mindset. Nah, it’s all about the flavor!!

@Mikser, your work here is obvious and appreciated. I’ll chime in as well about not being too concerned (well, except for sugars) but for those who are, your write-up is priceless. Well done!